Junior Doctors strike

Doctors, Junior or otherwise, are aware of the hours and the pay when they start the job. Starting pay £38k rising to £74k, plus overtime, plus enhanced pay for night shifts.

I think striking for more pay when nurses are on a pittance is selfish and obviously puts peoples lives at risk. Afterall, they studied for years to do a job that helps and cures people, not hold them hostage for more pay.

My DD is a senior nurse in a busy hospital and agrees with the junior doctors striking . They work extremely long hours in a very stressful job . DD works closely with them and sees what the job entails . She earns pretty much the same as some of them and although she is responsible she isn’t as responsible as the medics .
Also the doctor strike hasn’t made much difference to A/E as the shifts have been covered by the consultants so most patients are seen by someone more senior than they would normally be .

My relative had a motorbike accident resulting in a shattered kneecap, during one of these junior doctors strikes.
Surgery was urgent but not life threatening so they laid in a hospital bed for 10 days, yes 10 days in agony on morphine blocking a bed. Surgeons were only doing life or death operations.
These junior doctors should be dismissed and replaced with other medical students looking for places. There are many that didn't get a place. Doctors strikes should be limited to 48hours in any month due to patients suffering from lack of care. They are disgusting

I realise that Aveline, and you are perfectly entitled to do so. I couldn't possibly comment!!! 😊

If the Doctors just did the contracted hours and no voluntary overtime it would have more of an impact then a strike. Yes they are well paid compared to some jobs but I for one would not want to make life or death decisions every day.

I am so so sorry for what you are going through with your son. 💐🙏🏻

I'm only criticising my own government!

Oh yes, I agree, that is equally annoying, but I still think it's better to be polite(ish!) and tactful when criticising someone else's government! Probably best not to go too far, even if they agree?!!!

I agree Jaberwok but can't keep quiet when people go on praising a government that I know to be doing a very incompetent job.

Aveline, I certainly had no intention of singling out Scotland or causing any discord. Our Westminster government IS dire that is for certain, and while for me it's fine to criticise your own government, but to go on about about somebody else's (even when it's true!) does over time begin to grate on that 'somebody else!! ' I'm sure you'd feel the same.

Jaberwok I try not to miss a chance to mention how abysmal the Scottish 'government' is! I live in Scotland and know how dire the situation is.

I do have sympathy for junior doctors their pay has fallen a great deal.

For comparison my second GD has just completed training as A Norland Nanny 3 yrs college plus 1 yr probationary. At 23yrs old is on full pay £42k a year. !

Her training is no where near the level of a doctor, but its private sector and thats the going rate, she has one 18month old and a baby on the way, so she will stay for the foreseeable future. She works normal hours normal days off and holidays but is flexible to suit employer

One down side, she is always traveling overseas with the family. It what she always wanted to do

Unfortunately the constant criticism of England and the evil regime at Westminster no matter whose in power, does get extremely irritating and tiresome. More so, because not one person on here ever criticises the Scottish government no matter how appallingly awful it and it's ministers are!

Cossy

I would also point out, and know someone whose son was in this very situation, during training it’s really hard to get the contracts required in hospitals to continue and there don’t appear to be enough posts either for newly qualified doctors. Also the term “junior” doctors is most misleading.

I should have said junior doctors are now “resident doctors”.

Cossy

I would also point out, and know someone whose son was in this very situation, during training it’s really hard to get the contracts required in hospitals to continue and there don’t appear to be enough posts either for newly qualified doctors. Also the term “junior” doctors is most misleading.

Agree Cossy, but making more training places being available was part of the deal the doctors have turned down.

I too have doctors in the family but cannot see that this strike has any merit.

Regardless of the doctors' case and whether the BMA is politically motivated the root problem is the failure of successive governments - Tory, Labour and Coalition - to plan for the health of the population. One only has to look at Europe to see provision could be better.

Jaberwok

Paddyann, with great respect, the resident doctors strike in England, has little or nothing to do with Scotland, making your comment totally irrelevant.

I don’t think it’s irrelevant. paddyanne is pointing out that in Scotland medical staff are better treated than in England. Perhaps we should learn from them?

I would also point out, and know someone whose son was in this very situation, during training it’s really hard to get the contracts required in hospitals to continue and there don’t appear to be enough posts either for newly qualified doctors. Also the term “junior” doctors is most misleading.

How awful for you and your son, empathy as my DF and also also bestie’s husband both had this and I know how awfully painful it can be.

I’m angry with the junior doctors because they were given a good deal.

Though I’m not convinced the strike is solely responsible for the delays in treatments in hospitals. My poor DM had to be admitted several times in the year prior to her death in 2022, she was kept in an ambulance outside the hospital on several occasions, once for 9 hours, then “treated” in a corridor for another 6 hours.

There are simply not enough beds, not enough staff and not enough resources. I seem to remember Boris promising much needed hospitals, were they built? I also remember being promised the extra 44,000 staff required across the country.

Paddyann, with great respect, the resident doctors strike in England, has little or nothing to do with Scotland, making your comment totally irrelevant.

But I do agree with Cumbrianmale that, despite their pay not really reflecting their skill / responsibility level and the investment / time it would take to train someone to do their job if they left, they should compromise on pay in the short-term & accept the fair offer on the table. In the long-term I think they merit a higher relative payrate.

Cumbrianmale56

I understand it is very hard to qualify for medical school, there is a large debt to be paid back, and it can take a long time for resident doctors to reach consultant level. However, once they reach consultant level and rise up the pay scale, they are very well paid with a job for life and a very good pension at 60.
I certainly expect someone like a psychiatrist to earn far more than someone like a porter as they have taken so long to qualify. What I don't expect is someone who is early on in their career demanding a huge pay rise after they've received 22% and been offerd over 5% this year.

They are not all "early on in their career".
Senior registrars may be 5 years post medical school,so 10 years post A levels,and do the bulk of the surgery in their specialty, as even when they've done the junior houseman, senior houseman, junior registrar, senior registrar progression, & passed their CCT exams, they have to wait for a consultant position to become available, apply & successfully interview for it, before they become a consultant & cease to be a resident doctor.

Can I just point out to paddyann54 that the Scottish government have unfortunately not worked out how they can pay the rises that they've promised the doctors. In the doomsday scenario that SNP get re elected this will be a massive headache for them or, more likely, the beleaguered tax payers who already pay more than they do in England.

After 6.5 hrs at hospital and 2 hrs driving this will have to do.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-offer-to-resident-doctors/offer-to-bma-uk-resident-doctors-committee-accessible-version

Can I point out that in Scotland we haven,t had any doctors strike when English doctors were,
No nurses strikes either

This is a fault of government ,if they sat down and discussed .the problem they just might find a solution .
Instead the ongoing issue just causes division…it’s not the long since you were all out clapping on a Thursday evening…these are still the same people under the same stress .