Southport killings inquiry verdict.

GrannyGravy13

The ethnicity of criminals (whatever their crime) is becoming the Elephant in the Room

In the UK we are seeing more incidents where authorities/agencies are not responding to queries and/or suspicions for the fear of being labelled racist.

In the UK we record the ethnicity of the victims of crime but not the perpetrators.

In January I wrote to my MP to ask why…….I have not received a response.

I will nudge him today.

This is the email my MP has not bothered to respond to.

As a constituent I would be very interested to know why no data is available for crimes committed in the UK by ethnic minorities and immigrants.

However the data is readily available pertaining to the ethnicity of victims, which reveals a stark and unnecessary imbalance, which in turn affects public perception, increasingly concerned about two-tier justice.

I believe this information should be readily available, assuming the current (and previous) government are, and have not been, trying to hide this information from us.

I would be very interested to hear your views and stance regarding this matter, and what you might be able to do to help bring about a consistent and transparent outcome to this issue of concern.

I look forward to hearing from you.

The silence is deafening.

I had not seen the Report yesterday when I commented about the parents refusing two places offered at special schools. Having since read the Report, I notice that on the first line of this thread schools are listed as 'missing chances' to deal with Rudakubana. This was not so and Adrian Fulford was aware of it.AR's schools spent much time dealing with him and one eventually expelled him; he later returned to the school and was apprehended by members of staff, permanently excluded, and once again referred to Prevent, who as on three previous occasions, refused to take action. These referrals apparently damaged the school's relationship with the parents. That school's action saved the lives of their pupils, but AR simply moved on and found victims elsewhere.

Time and time again schools identify dangerous pupils; parents immediately blame the school, pupils, staff, everything except their own lack of responsibility. Further referrals to Attendance Officers, Behaviour Support, Social Services etc al aresult in 'we musn't upset the child's relationship with the parents,' plus increasing use of the excuse of 'Autism', as happened repeatedly in this case.

I was pleased to note Sir Adrian Fulford praised Range High School for its 'unassailably correct decision' to exclude him permanently, and also added that 'the three schools attended by Rudakubana had done much that was credible compared to other agencies and bodies.'
He recommended that all government bodies and local authorities heeded warnings made by schools, and called for "a nationwide reminder of the importance of respecting the insight offered by the child's school if they raise concern about the severity of risk that the child poses to others."
"As was the case with AR at the Acorns school, teachers will often spend more time observing the child and their interaction with their peers than is available to other professionals."
"Warnings from teachers and/or schools with particular expertise should be given particular weight."

So frequently professionals called for advice spend time in discussion with the parents, the pupil, occasionally the teacher and very little observing the child in the context of the school day with fellow pupils.

Sago

The headteacher of his school/referral unit expressed deep concern, she said he was high risk.
She was accused by a children’s mental health worker (Samantha Steed) of racial stereotyping.

Do you remember in the Manchester attack a security guard was reluctant to alert anyone to one of the perpetrators because of his colour?

What have we done?

I think employing agency staff on minimum wage was a factor.

The security guard was 18 years old. People should be properly trained and not afraid to act.

Can I just say as a second generation person ( father is German) that I expect people who are welcomed into this country to add value, in the way my dad did. Worked all his life, employed people, key part of his community. I have no idea what this family have contributed other than horror. I actually think it is quite offensive that we shouldn't be able to say this. My dad did everything right and was fully welcomed by a small tight knit community not that long after a war where people lost their family to his home country. When we aren't allowed to say what value have they added and what cost has it been, it is actually deeply dismissive of my dad and others exactly like him, whatever their colour and country of origin.

The grandfather is one of my sons in law was Polish. He escaped a concentration camp, got to England and fought with the free Polish Army
He settled, worked as a miner. His three sons were teased about their Polish last name. Its pronunciation now owes more to the north west than Poland. His sons and grandsons have all contributed hugely to our area and our country.

We are Europeans with not dissimilar cultures

Galaxy

Can I just say as a second generation person ( father is German) that I expect people who are welcomed into this country to add value, in the way my dad did. Worked all his life, employed people, key part of his community. I have no idea what this family have contributed other than horror. I actually think it is quite offensive that we shouldn't be able to say this. My dad did everything right and was fully welcomed by a small tight knit community not that long after a war where people lost their family to his home country. When we aren't allowed to say what value have they added and what cost has it been, it is actually deeply dismissive of my dad and others exactly like him, whatever their colour and country of origin.

A lot of people, my own ancestors included, have come here as refugees or immigrants and worked hard, contributed to this country. Many of our family members over a couple of hundred years have emigrated tok, worked hard and make good lives for themselves. I think AR's parents worked too and his brother was heading for university.

Reportedly, they were worried, if they reported him, he would be taken away. However, the fact remains that they enabled him, signed and presumably paid for his growing collection of lethal knives. Perhaps they were frightened in case they were all deported? Who knows why anyone would cover this up.

He was autistic and mentally ill, some tried to report him but in the end everyone failed him and as a consequence failed his victims.

I remain perturbed he wasn’t in Secure A commodation. Presumably because his parents lied and covered up the extent of his dangerousness

They need to not just learn lessons but be sent on retraining courses.

Galaxy

Can I just say as a second generation person ( father is German) that I expect people who are welcomed into this country to add value, in the way my dad did. Worked all his life, employed people, key part of his community. I have no idea what this family have contributed other than horror. I actually think it is quite offensive that we shouldn't be able to say this. My dad did everything right and was fully welcomed by a small tight knit community not that long after a war where people lost their family to his home country. When we aren't allowed to say what value have they added and what cost has it been, it is actually deeply dismissive of my dad and others exactly like him, whatever their colour and country of origin.

Absolutely agree with this post.

Let’s hope this will see a start, at least, to the end of bad/anti-social behaviour being blamed entirely on autism or other neurodiversity.

In this case the parents were obviously very much at fault for turning blind eyes.

No.
The Rudakubana family were given sanctuary in this country; they failed to accept the help that was offered for their son, who also 'declined' to accept it. His parents fed his obsession with weapons and violence, and although repeatedly calling for help when he became violent towards them they failed to follow any preventive measures suggested, because they did not want to lose him. Their concern was solely for themselves.
Were they called to the inquiry? If not, why not? Are they to go unpunished?
Had they listened, and acted responsibly, as people were acting towards them, those girls would be alive.

Axel Rudakubana is to be imprisoned for 51 years I believe.
At what cost? One prison officer has already been scalded with boiling water, from a kettle given as a 'privilege' to their son.

GrannyGravy13

The ethnicity of criminals (whatever their crime) is becoming the Elephant in the Room

In the UK we are seeing more incidents where authorities/agencies are not responding to queries and/or suspicions for the fear of being labelled racist.

I'm very much afraid that disclosing the ethnicity of criminals will just provide another stick for racists to beat immigrants with.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

The ethnicity of criminals (whatever their crime) is becoming the Elephant in the Room

In the UK we are seeing more incidents where authorities/agencies are not responding to queries and/or suspicions for the fear of being labelled racist.

I'm very much afraid that disclosing the ethnicity of criminals will just provide another stick for racists to beat immigrants with.

Not disclosing is equally devising.

Rotherham is a prime example where agencies kept quiet for fear of racism.

The colour of one’s skin should have no bearing on how you are treated by the NHS, Social Services and the law.

When ethnicity is hidden from the public, all it does is inflame certain sections of society, along with giving Reform and Restore Britain more votes.

eazybee

No.
The Rudakubana family were given sanctuary in this country; they failed to accept the help that was offered for their son, who also 'declined' to accept it. His parents fed his obsession with weapons and violence, and although repeatedly calling for help when he became violent towards them they failed to follow any preventive measures suggested, because they did not want to lose him. Their concern was solely for themselves.
Were they called to the inquiry? If not, why not? Are they to go unpunished?
Had they listened, and acted responsibly, as people were acting towards them, those girls would be alive.

Axel Rudakubana is to be imprisoned for 51 years I believe.
At what cost? One prison officer has already been scalded with boiling water, from a kettle given as a 'privilege' to their son.

Axel Rudakubana is to be imprisoned for 51 years I believe.
At what cost? One prison officer has already been scalded with boiling water, from a kettle given as a 'privilege' to their son.

😲
Are we just so well-meaning it becomes stupidity?

I can understand that the boy might have declined to accept help as that, perhaps, was part of his mental illness. But for the parents to decline help and to feed his obsession with knives was extremely strange and in fact unforgivable.

The parents seem truly dreadful to be honest. I have scanned some of the report.

But were they dreadful because they came from another country?

For me, I'm becoming totally confused, unclear and perplexed as to how incompetence and racism come head to head in so many of these inquiries. There's always some link.

We now have breaking news that eleven Met Police officers are being investigated for racism in their handling of the London prep school car crash that killed two little girls in the playground. Misconduct and racism combined.

How can we ensure that there's a level of accountability, or that lessons will be learned in such a climate?

But were they dreadful because they came from another country?
What a strange question.
Would you think some of my family dreadful because they come from other countries? If that is what you think, I think you need to give your head a wobble.
😡

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

The ethnicity of criminals (whatever their crime) is becoming the Elephant in the Room

In the UK we are seeing more incidents where authorities/agencies are not responding to queries and/or suspicions for the fear of being labelled racist.

I'm very much afraid that disclosing the ethnicity of criminals will just provide another stick for racists to beat immigrants with.

Not disclosing the ethnicity of criminals in the name of social cohesion has done a lot of damage.

I don't think anyone has said the behaviour of the Rudakubanas was dreadful because they came from another country. But what has been shown is that certain agencies hesitated in pursuing investigations and strategies because they feared being accused of racism. And that can ruin careers.

eazybee

I don't think anyone has said the behaviour of the Rudakubanas was dreadful because they came from another country. But what has been shown is that certain agencies hesitated in pursuing investigations and strategies because they feared being accused of racism. And that can ruin careers.

And not doing so can end up with innocent people being killed.

Nottingham and Southport murders are prime examples.

MartavTaurus

For me, I'm becoming totally confused, unclear and perplexed as to how incompetence and racism come head to head in so many of these inquiries. There's always some link.

We now have breaking news that eleven Met Police officers are being investigated for racism in their handling of the London prep school car crash that killed two little girls in the playground. Misconduct and racism combined.

How can we ensure that there's a level of accountability, or that lessons will be learned in such a climate?

how can we ensure that there’s a level of accountability, or tgat lessons will be learned in such a climate
I’m loath to be the bearer of bad news, but, it’s the MET = corruption.
I’m a south London girl born in 1946, it was ever thus. The present incumbent pass on their corruption to the younger ones.
The only thing that’s changed is that we are more aware of it now. But that to me makes it worse as it’s in our face and they know nothing is going to change.
The information given out that 2 of the officers questioned were, 1 is a commander and another a chief inspector.
That’s how rotten the MET is.

Petra, I posted on an earlier thread. My dad was seconded to the Met on a couple of occasions from a northern county force in the sixties and seventies. He always said the Met totally corruot

I feel that his parents must bear the main brunt of responsibility for his crimes as they knew he was dangerous, In fact I believe they were frightened of him themselves so they should have reported him to the police. Failure to do so must make them equally culpable for the murder of these children. Therefore I believe they should be charged with aiding and abetting at least and sent to prison. This would send a message to other parents who are willing to cover up their children’s’ crimes.
If he had then been admitted to a psychiatric unit at an early stage he might have received the treatment that he needed and this terrible tragedy would not have happened.

Working with families who don’t have English as first language and whose cultures are very different than those of the host culture is a challenge.
I stress I’m neither excusing ARs parents, or the poor practice from various agencies.
Proactive practitioners like the head teacher who was accused of seeing the stereotypical black boy with a knife. No her trainings, professionalism, experience all came together to conclude this is a dangerous child.
Raising increasing concerns isn’t always appreciated. I speak as someone who spent months trying to get senior managers to accept genuine not exaggerated concerns