Andy Burnham has plan to return to Westminster ‘within weeks’. Allies sayGreater Manchester mayor said to have identified seats where MPs would step aside to allow leadership bid.

The difference presumably is that Streeting has declared them MaizieD. That is actually pretty important in itself.

Allira

Galaxy

Yes it is terrible when people you consider less bright than you are allowed to vote.

Every citizen should take an IQ test and a course in PPE and Central and Local Government before being allowed to vote.

And further to that, have to apply to Gransnet for permission 😁

Burnham isn’t underhand, or no more than any other politician anyway.
He can see that Starmer is on the way out so why not be ambitious and aim for the top job?

Casdon

The difference presumably is that Streeting has declared them MaizieD. That is actually pretty important in itself.

I'm not really talking about whether or not they are undeclared. I'm thinking of the influence they nay, or may not, bring to bear.

But surely if they are undeclared you don’t know what the influence might even be, so it is relevant?

Iam64

I don’t want Streeting and he’s been lining himself up for some time. He interviews well, an asset in many ways but Mandelson and the alleged links with private medicine do worry me.
I take your point about safe seats FGT but Andy is popular in the north, not sure about Surrey 🤣

We are short of a strong candidate

Just as the Conservatives were when they decided to tear their own party apart to please the press and those who have decided that politics are the latest form of entertainment and then complain about the outcome.

Oreo

Burnham isn’t underhand, or no more than any other politician anyway.
He can see that Starmer is on the way out so why not be ambitious and aim for the top job?

He left parliament because he found a better job elsewhere. He now wants to be an MP because he thinks he can walk into the top job and renege on his promise to the people of Manchester. If he was so dedicated and not career driven he would have continued to be an MP. He’s been undermining Starmer right from the beginning.

Galaxy

The thing is those who profess to spend a lot of time engaging in current affairs have attached themselves to some of the most ridiculous ideas known to man in the last few years, ooh yes Mandelsson would be ideal, oh yes globalise the intifada, oh yes women have a penis, be kind, oh the mannosphere ( a word we didn't know last week), and on and on. I think we should give the '2 minute people' a chance, I feel they may do better.

From what I've seen you are one of those people who spends a lot of time engaging with your definition of "women's issues". You have a far more in-depth understanding of the topic than I do, which I respect, even though I actually think (in my opinion*) some of your conclusions are ridiculous.

I am a "two minute brain" on a number of topics: trans issues, Harry and Meghan, celebs, most TV programmes, most sport and loads more. I see headlines when I walk past the newspapers in the supermarket and headlines sometimes catch my eye and I remember them, but nobody would want to give me any responsibility to decide anything about any of the topics.

DaisyAnneReturns

Spot on twaddle thank you. I see what remains of the Forth Estate as "the enemy". Although stiĺl needed, they have reduced democracy all over the free world.

I have no idea what a Forth Estate is.

As for 2 minute brains - again not understanding precisely what is meant.

I might put myself in a 2 minute brain slot.
As I see things, if there are lots of people like me, then the political parties need to move with the times, and act according.

Oh I think lots of things are ridiculous twaddle, so that doesn't worry me.
I actually am beginning to think Streeting may have missed his moment.

A friend reckons everything is on hold until after the King's speech.

fancythat

DaisyAnneReturns

Spot on twaddle thank you. I see what remains of the Forth Estate as "the enemy". Although stiĺl needed, they have reduced democracy all over the free world.

I have no idea what a Forth Estate is.

As for 2 minute brains - again not understanding precisely what is meant.

I might put myself in a 2 minute brain slot.
As I see things, if there are lots of people like me, then the political parties need to move with the times, and act according.

What do you mean by ‘people like me’ fancythat? Are you talking about values, age, class, political priorities, or something else? And when you say parties should ‘act accordingly’, what changes do you actually want them to make?

MayBee, we often agree but never on Andy Burnham. I’m not sure anyone thought being Mayor of Manchester was a better job than being an MP. Maybe he fancied a change, whatever the reason he’s making a great job as our Mayor.

I met him a few times during the last GE he was fully supporting Keir Starmer. I’m very disappointed with Keir’s leadership, I voted for him and believed he’d bring the skills and principles he’d shown in his legal career, that’s not happened. I hope there’s no untimely rush to force a leadership challenge. It seems inevitable though. I’d vote Andy of the current possible candidates - hope he gets a seat snd the unpopularity of Keir doesn’t hand it to reform

Agreed, Iam. I have long felt that AB would make a good PM, and dislike the way many good people have been deselected or sidelined for not being right wing enough to be Labour ministers.

I am also confused about ‘2 minute brain’ people, and why easybee assumes them to be working class.

fancythat the fourth estate is a sociological term for the media, recognising their influence on society (after the Church, the monarchy and (I think) the law. Sometimes the third estate refers to commoners (ie the non-noble), or to education, depending on whose theory is in play.

I am also in agreement Iam64. AB is the strongest of all the contenders.

The problem with AB is that he wants to be a contender but is not in a position to do so without both letting down those who he is currently serving and who voted him in and/or some political chicanery to create an by-election in a supposedly safe seat.

Neither of these feel right, however good a PM he might make.

Luckygirl3

The problem with AB is that he wants to be a contender but is not in a position to do so without both letting down those who he is currently serving and who voted him in and/or some political chicanery to create an by-election in a supposedly safe seat.

Neither of these feel right, however good a PM he might make.

The majority of posters are already fully aware that Burnham is not currently an MP.

That is why I favour a stage succession plan with Starmer standing down at a letter date, perhaps around the time of the Labour conference in the Autumn.

Apart form many other benefits, that would give Burnham time to put himself forward if and when an MP seat becomes available for election. He then takes his chances- as happens in every case- here are no guaranteed "safe seats".

Of course Reform will throw everything it has to elect their candidate in such circumstances- as they did in G and D. Realistically that would be one of their Conservative defectors that may stand, perceived as an experienced "heavy hitter". Equally that may backfire greatly for Reform in the same way if not elected.

Luckygirl3

The problem with AB is that he wants to be a contender but is not in a position to do so without both letting down those who he is currently serving and who voted him in and/or some political chicanery to create an by-election in a supposedly safe seat.

Neither of these feel right, however good a PM he might make.

No, this is what I find unsettling. If I commit to something I stick with it. I actually think that there are factions of the Labour Party that used Keir to get elected but have always planned to usurp him at some point. And, no matter how the electorate are said by the media to dislike Starmer he is still the man voted for to be PM. Conservative friends have always said Labour are not fit to govern and the party as a whole has shown that to be the case, Keir ( who I still think is one of the most decent politicians out there) is just their scapegoat. I can’t remember a politician so loathed by everyone, their party included, who is less deserving of that. If he is forced to go, which seems inevitable now, I’m done with Labour and I’m done with politics.

I am not sure why he is loathed - if indeed that is the case.

He has been a steady hand on the tiller, respects the rule of law and parliament (a departure from the Tories), good on the international stage and has not allowed himself to be intimidated into unwise actions by Trump - but for my money he has not been radical enough at home with social policies to address inequalities and has tried to appease the far right too much.

But none of that makes me loathe him. Like all PMs he is between a rock and a hard place, and if he dares to make mention of the mess he was left to pick up it is seen as a cop-out. He can't win. It is a shame that his colleagues are not showing more loyalty and using persuasion behind the scenes rather than grandstanding.

DaisyAnneReturns

fancythat

DaisyAnneReturns

Spot on twaddle thank you. I see what remains of the Forth Estate as "the enemy". Although stiĺl needed, they have reduced democracy all over the free world.

I have no idea what a Forth Estate is.

As for 2 minute brains - again not understanding precisely what is meant.

I might put myself in a 2 minute brain slot.
As I see things, if there are lots of people like me, then the political parties need to move with the times, and act according.

What do you mean by ‘people like me’ fancythat? Are you talking about values, age, class, political priorities, or something else? And when you say parties should ‘act accordingly’, what changes do you actually want them to make?

People like me, as in have the 2 minute brain[assuming I am understanding the term correctly which I may not be]. Doesnt matter what age class etc etc they are.

Parties - I dont know what they should do differently. Not for me to know. But just be aware that there are many people now, who for whatever reason, just read/hear headlines and bits and pieces.
They havent got time/got other things to do/choose to have other things to do than delve into anything politically deep.

Doodledog thank you for the description of the fourth estate. Never heard that term before.

I don’t think he is loathed. The very biased Nick Robinson (leader of the conservative group at university, I think?) said that people found him “repellent” on the Today programme.
Outrageous thing for a news presenter to say. Inaccurate, too, in my opinion.

Basgetti

I don’t think he is loathed. The very biased Nick Robinson (leader of the conservative group at university, I think?) said that people found him “repellent” on the Today programme.
Outrageous thing for a news presenter to say. Inaccurate, too, in my opinion.

But they are saying things like that all the time, they are feeding the narrative.

I know, Maybee. It’s a feeding frenzy and very wrong imo.

eazybee

^Now the 2 minute brains are controlled by a press owned by very rich people who generally don't live or pay taxes in this country. So much for democracy.^

It is comments like these which explain why Labour, which professes to be the party of working people, is so unpopular. Nobody, including those apparently totally unqualified to hold a voting slip, cares to be patronised.
It isn't working class anymore, dear, it is working people just like Starmer. Haven't you listened to him extolling the virtues of his supposed background?

Labour is the party of the London Urban elite. Well educated, in good schools, (state and private), degrees from top Russell Universities, often lawyers or in other professions. many union and lobbying group apparatchiks.

… and lots of other groups too. Here is a voter types piece of social research.
natcen.ac.uk/news/new-research-natcen-defines-six-uk-voter-types-ahead-general-election