Andy Burnham has plan to return to Westminster ‘within weeks’. Allies sayGreater Manchester mayor said to have identified seats where MPs would step aside to allow leadership bid.

Very convincing if you are living in an area where Thatcher’s pit closures programme bit I would say. She will never be forgotten by the families of those affected.

I am living in such an area.

And have those affected forgiven Thatcher Galaxy?

They tend to be furious with other people these days.
I just think that plays in to the ands of the opposition whose first response to that would surely be well what did the long term government of which you were part do about reversing those issues.

Hands rather than ands!

They must be different to the mining families in South Wales then. Their abiding hatred of Thatcher and what she stood for has never abated, because she destroyed their communities. It’s easy to say later governments could have put it right, but they couldn’t, because it’s not all about money and jobs.

Being furious with other people does not detract from how people feel about Thatcher, it just piles more anger on top.

But he can't have it all ways can he. He is the one who can now fix/ help those communities when Blairs government did not?
I actually think Blairs government made some steps with those communities but also some drastic mistakes. It is a very complex pictures over quite a long period of time.

I’m not saying he, or indeed anybody, can ‘fix it’, I don’t even think that is possible, but I think he is not out of line in blaming Thatcher when addressing local people, he knows the area well enough to understand what rankles them.

Doodledog sorry I was not clear. I should have said in the last 100 or fifty years Labour have only held power, been in office, for a third of that time,mtgectrus tof tge time Conservatists.

I heard Andy Burnham talking about the need for change, stressing the fact the north has been ignored, left behind
That’s true in my town which was a thriving manufacturing And mining area

Casdon

They must be different to the mining families in South Wales then. Their abiding hatred of Thatcher and what she stood for has never abated, because she destroyed their communities. It’s easy to say later governments could have put it right, but they couldn’t, because it’s not all about money and jobs.

Being furious with other people does not detract from how people feel about Thatcher, it just piles more anger on top.

They must really be living in the past there.
There were mine closures in the UK from the 1960’s to the 90’s when the last ones closed.
Coal just wasn’t needed, it wasn’t anyone’s fault.It was hard for the miners but all the younger ones went into other occupations which was so much better for them.What a life working in a deep mine and going home filthy every day.
Arthur Scargill handled the miners strikes in the 1980’s really badly.

It’s a shame about manufacturing tho, I wish we produced more British made items but market forces prevail generally.

Casdon

I’m not saying he, or indeed anybody, can ‘fix it’, I don’t even think that is possible, but I think he is not out of line in blaming Thatcher when addressing local people, he knows the area well enough to understand what rankles them.

I do think he’s out of line really, it was so long ago, how many PM’s have we had since then?
MT is just an easy target.

Oreo

Casdon

They must be different to the mining families in South Wales then. Their abiding hatred of Thatcher and what she stood for has never abated, because she destroyed their communities. It’s easy to say later governments could have put it right, but they couldn’t, because it’s not all about money and jobs.

Being furious with other people does not detract from how people feel about Thatcher, it just piles more anger on top.

They must really be living in the past there.
There were mine closures in the UK from the 1960’s to the 90’s when the last ones closed.
Coal just wasn’t needed, it wasn’t anyone’s fault.It was hard for the miners but all the younger ones went into other occupations which was so much better for them.What a life working in a deep mine and going home filthy every day.
Arthur Scargill handled the miners strikes in the 1980’s really badly.

Coal was needed, it was just that cheap coal was imported from,IIRC. Poland. A nice stockpile ready for Thatcher when she took the miners on.

And if not needed, how come there's been open casting going on since the pits closed?

I agree that Scargill handled the miners' strike badly. We lived in one of the Yorkshire coalfield towns where the main industry was mining. The strike was very hard on them, stretched their NUM loyalty to the utmost.

What was so bad about Thatcher's deindustrialisation was that there was no plan to replace the industries with meaningful jobs. This was to be left to 'the market'. The ex workers were left to sink. And still are sinking. 'Service jobs', much talked of by Thatcher, didn't cover the jobs shortfall. Remember 3 million unemployed?

Oreo

Casdon

They must be different to the mining families in South Wales then. Their abiding hatred of Thatcher and what she stood for has never abated, because she destroyed their communities. It’s easy to say later governments could have put it right, but they couldn’t, because it’s not all about money and jobs.

Being furious with other people does not detract from how people feel about Thatcher, it just piles more anger on top.

They must really be living in the past there.
There were mine closures in the UK from the 1960’s to the 90’s when the last ones closed.
Coal just wasn’t needed, it wasn’t anyone’s fault.It was hard for the miners but all the younger ones went into other occupations which was so much better for them.What a life working in a deep mine and going home filthy every day.
Arthur Scargill handled the miners strikes in the 1980’s really badly.

I dare say they are no different to former miners and their families elsewhere in the UK Oreo. So many formerly thriving villages became ghost towns over a very short period. Mines had been closing slowly previously, but Thatcher’s sledge hammer hit like nothing else, you can’t blame them for mourning the loss of their communities, even forty years on, and blaming the instigator.

True Casdon I have recently moved back to South
Wales, Thatcher is still hated

Our largest mining village became a ghost town. There was no work. The dole became a way of life. Miners were proud of their work. Heroin moved in as pride moved out. Aunties abd grandparents stepped in to care for children whose parents couldn’t care for them because heroin ruled.
No attempts to rebuild former mining or manufacturing towns, poverty of spirit as well as cash

Not only mining but also steel, two huge industries that went hand in hand. MT had a clear strategy to destroy the unions and the industries and communities they represented, and she did nothing to help them afterwards. She started on the steel industry as a practice run, using her henchman MacGregor, before she took on the miners. She is still hated in those areas, justifiably so.

South Wales had coal mines, steelworks, ironworks,

It is apparently the launch of Burnham's election campaign today (according to Labour List)

Unfortunately he has already taken the shine off his 'promise' by endorsing the Home Secretary's appalling immigration proposals, committing to Reeves' ridiculous 'fiscal rules' and distancing himself from the EU. He also appears to be distancing himself from renationalisation, even of such basket cases as the water companies, by using the term 'public control' rather than 'public ownership'. Shareholders can breathe easy, their dividend gravy train will be safe.

He may well win the by election, may well become PM, but if this happens don't expect any change. Just a a more personable figurehead presiding over the wreck of a party and a vastly unequal society.

Iam64 I remember young fit men turning to steroids and the gym when the mines closed.
Nothing else to do.
Lots of tesearch on this. So sad.

Maybe the heroin came next?

MaizieD

It is apparently the launch of Burnham's election campaign today (according to Labour List)

Unfortunately he has already taken the shine off his 'promise' by endorsing the Home Secretary's appalling immigration proposals, committing to Reeves' ridiculous 'fiscal rules' and distancing himself from the EU. He also appears to be distancing himself from renationalisation, even of such basket cases as the water companies, by using the term 'public control' rather than 'public ownership'. Shareholders can breathe easy, their dividend gravy train will be safe.

He may well win the by election, may well become PM, but if this happens don't expect any change. Just a a more personable figurehead presiding over the wreck of a party and a vastly unequal society.

He’s also done a U-turn on transgender people in single sex places I believe. So the party is going to go through inner turmoil for ages with a leader election only to end up with someone who is beginning to realise that you can have all sort of principles when outside of government but it’s a different matter when you’re in power ( or when you’re trying to get into it).He’ll just do the same things as Starmer but in a more eloquent/charismatic way. I also agree that Reform are standing an unelectable candidate because it fits in with their Starmer Out strategy. As I said before they’re playing Labour like a fiddle. My partner has said for years that Burnham blows with the wind and I agree with him. There isn’t the money to renationalise the water companies anyway, especially if all this political disruption damages the economy.

Maybee70.

There is no need for Burnham or anyone else to have a U turn on the personal position regarding the tensions between trans critical views versus human rights as the subsequent 2025 legal case and national guidance issued May 2026 has clarified the single sex toilet issue. The guidance set out that safe toilet space rights of all people- men, women and transgender people. The guidance is clear that women must have access to single sex toilets and gender neutral toilets must also be made available so all have access to safe toilet spaces.

There isn’t the money to renationalise the water companies anyway, especially if all this political disruption damages the economy.

The country does not have a finite amount of money. It is not a household or a business. It creates money every day when the state spends. If it can create £300billion to save the banks, at no detriment to our economy in 2008 (in fact. that saved our economy) it can renationalise the water companies. Thames water, in particular is practically worthless. It's living on loans to pay its dividends and on its customers to pay its bills.

"There isn’t the money to renationalise the water companies anyway, especially if all this political disruption damages the economy".

Ministers are already currently in a negotiation for a take over deal for Thames Water with a consortium of American creditors, led by American Investment firm Elliott Management. The deal may or may not collapse- we wait to see

Burnham's direction of travel is clear. He did successfully bring buses and trams in Greater Manchester into public control with good price and route outcomes etc for the benefit of GM residents. It is said he would similarly seek to bring water companies within public control if f and when elected as MP and if and when elected as PM. When and if that happens it will be interesting to see his plans, including what financial model is he proposes.