Andy Burnham has plan to return to Westminster ‘within weeks’. Allies sayGreater Manchester mayor said to have identified seats where MPs would step aside to allow leadership bid.

Snap

I feel sorry for him. He can’t change his personality/ nature.
I read a piece on him in The big Issue.

It said: if Starmer had been Martin Luther Kings speech writer we would never have had the i have a dream speech
Instead we would have had i have a strategic plan

That sums up the Starmer problem. He doesn’t inspire. He doesn’t ( can’t ?) make you believe and want to follow him into battle. There’s no fire in his belly. That’s not to say that everything Andy Burnham said was true but he’s inspired a lot of people with his own i have a dream speech

Whitewavemark2

I see the worms are busy escaping the woodwork - re the Reform candidate.

Kenyon is busy scrubbing his Facebook and anything else that holds dodgy content.

Sadly, though, I don’t think people are bothered about fascists these days. They’ve been encouraged to admire them, if anything.

Well of course he will be. No one can move these days without a scrutiny of who they may follow or words they may have said. It was the right who obsessessed about this in my youth now it is the left. I am not sure if it makes things better .

Surely political nous would lead you to clear up your social media history before your selection was announced, rather than when the horse has already bolted, given how many have already been outed?

I think this is brewing to be a dirty campaign. I watched Rupert Lowe announcing his candidate last night, she is a well known local woman who has been fighting with the council about her stables business, there will be a fight on the right as well as a left/right one by the looks of it.

Labour serves approximately two thirds less in power than Conservatives, there is good reason for that.
What does this mean, please? Serves less of what, and how is whatever it is measured?

It’s interesting that people who have had nothing good to say about Starmer (so have been part of the reason for all of this) are defending him now they’ve got what they thought they wanted.

The constant undermining of the PM has created this situation- whether that was done by foreign agitators such as Putin, press barons feeding soundbites for the bots to spread online or individuals repeating them whilst claiming to be speaking for themselves.

Yes, Starmer has got things wrong, but nothing on the scale of Brexit, Austerity, Partygate, lying in Parliament and to the Queen etc etc, and the Tories stayed in power for 14 years. There were criticisms yes, but where were the catcalls and slogans? Did the press, the media and online platforms condemn everything from the Deputy’s trouser suit to the PM’s facial expression, and complain about everything the government did? What were the slogans that were all over social media then? Can anyone name any?

From the Spectator article Maybee posted:

As one former close colleague of his told me years ago, the only thing worth knowing about Burnham is that he has no real views. He has zero interest in ideas and even fewer principles, but a strong interest in the business of being a politician, and how he can advance the cause of Andy Burnham. Understand that and you understand the man.

I give you the Tend pledges Starmer made when campaigning to be leader of the Labour Party:

www.clpd.org.uk/resource/keir-starmer-10-pledges/

How many of them were dumped once in office?

And today the BBC website leads with the news that sanctions on Russian oil are to be 'eased' because of the shortage caused by Trump's illegal war.

Poor Zelensky must be despairing...

MaizieD I was astounded when I heard that the government are easing sanctions on Russian oil, what on earth are they thinking. (Or are they not thinking at all)

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD I was astounded when I heard that the government are easing sanctions on Russian oil, what on earth are they thinking. (Or are they not thinking at all)

I think that they are afraid to tell the truth about the hardships to come as a result of Trump's little war. They will come even if Trump gave in right now.

The FT has an article about it today. This is very serious,

I think the topic needs a thread to itself but I'm too busy today to be the one to start it.

The hardships also come because we are not allowed to use our own natural resources, but it is so much more ethical to pay Russia for polluting the atmosphere. Apparently.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD I was astounded when I heard that the government are easing sanctions on Russian oil, what on earth are they thinking. (Or are they not thinking at all)

I think that they are afraid to tell the truth about the hardships to come as a result of Trump's little war. They will come even if Trump gave in right now.

The FT has an article about it today. This is very serious,

I think the topic needs a thread to itself but I'm too busy today to be the one to start it.

I think you are right MaizieD. The deprivation caused in Asia as a result of the Iran war is already very serious, and we are now in an oil price bidding war which Russia can only win from. The consequences of Trump’s stupidity are resonating round the whole world, it’s changing the world order.

While I agree that the right wing media has been out to remove Starmer from the minute he took office, I think one of his problems is that he has so few voices to defend him. He spent so much of his energies on insulting the left wing members of the labour party, telling us/them that we knew where the door was and could leave, that as a result the membership has been so reduced that there are few people knocking on doors to tell people of the good things that have been achieved.
The good things are not associated with him or with Reeves.
Another Labour leader might have had articulate union voices supporting him in the media, but he has alienated them as well, sacking MPs for defending strike action.

He broke the pledges he made to get elected, as pointed out by MaizieD up thread.

He abandoned those who might have been his supporters in order to try and win over Reform voters.

He apparently did nothing to really get to know his back benchers, or listen to their concerns.

No wonder he is on his own now.

Andy Burnham, who was a staunch Remainer, has realised that the electorate in Makerfield had one of the highest Leave percentages in the EU referendum. Seeing that this may scupper his chances of winning the by-election he has now performed a screeching U-turn and announced that he will not support reopening any further talks with the EU. Funny, that.

He said he wouldn't be in favour of reopening talks at the moment, not never.

Well it's current government policy, isnt it, to get closer not rejoin.

I think the sarcastic "screeching U-turn" is just ignoring political realities: in your ideal world out of power you give your "ideal"

reality is not only about how far you can bring people with you,

but also that circumstances change. Post Trumps world twists and turns, its what will be best right now= draw closer to Europe as a priority

Oh my, do the press love to castigate so called :"U turns" but why shouldn't policy be changed in the face of reality

Or even - gasp - a politician changing policy because it was a mistake in the first place? What for goodness sake is wrong with that.

What is so brilliant about clinging to a policy that didn't work out? Why is that a good thing ?

It's different if a politician is using something for personal gain, like having handed out contracts for mates. Fine, pick them up on that climb down

I agree, Wyllow. I'm sure we have all known people who never admit they were wrong, or that something they thought was right at one time just doesn't fit any more.

Do we have respect for their intransigence, or do we prefer the pragmatism of those who are able to change their minds, or to understand that perfect can be the enemy of good?

Oh a few u turns are acceptable and show that the PM is listening and in tune with the people when needed.
Constant u turns denote poor judgement in the first place.

I'm not so sure that the Brexit 'thing' will be so significant 10 years later. If only because time has removes a great many Leave voters and brought many younger, more pro EU voters into the electorate.

I'm still convinced that what is bothering voters the most is their own finances, the general run down state of public services and dead High Streets (which seem to be a significant factor even though its been the voters themselves have largely abandoned them in favour of out of town shopping complexes and online buying).
It seems to me that Burnham is running on localism; change to local economies and his success in Manchester, implying it can be repeated on a national scale.

Yes, he is. His local reputation.

Not known for "U turns".

But the press and opponents will do anything and everything.

That can cut several ways.

Reform has chosen a "Safe local unknown", but how long "unknown" given the scrutiny likely to fall on him.

Ilovecheese

He said he wouldn't be in favour of reopening talks at the moment, not never.

He's not in favour at the moment while he wants votes but if elected it may be a different matter.

Which I think would be a good thing. (Getting closer to Europe)

In my opinion both the main parties have been clinging on to the failed economic theory of"trickle down". The sooner they u turn on that, the better.

eazybee

The hardships also come because we are not allowed to use our own natural resources, but it is so much more ethical to pay Russia for polluting the atmosphere. Apparently.

I think Starmer is under the spell of Miliband or something!

Ilovecheese

Which I think would be a good thing. (Getting closer to Europe)

In my opinion both the main parties have been clinging on to the failed economic theory of"trickle down". The sooner they u turn on that, the better.

Burnham is saying that it's got to change because trickle down isn't working (as it never has)

Has anyone seen his first campaign video yet?

Yes MaizieD just watched both Burnham and Kenyon's campaign videos back to back.

Kenyon- "Robert Kenyon"
- Born and bred in Makerfiled and Makerfiled deserves someone local - not the usual public school educated that send their children to public schools, ie not one of us..( he's describing Farage not Burnham!)
- you can't just read a book you need to do it...
- Makerfield deserves a local champion...
- He enjoys his job as a plumber- he's serviced peoples gas boilers in the area
- he would be proud to represent Makerfield as a working class person in Westminster (Farage doesn't get there often and isn't working class!)

Burnham- "Andy Burnham- For Us"
-went to an ordinary state school in Makerfield and sent his 3 children to the same school
- walked through streets he grew up in
- plenty of people coming up to him, praising/commenting on what he's done for Greater Manchester- he's one of us..
Talked about Thatcherism, how it decimated areas like Makerfield, the decline of the north over 40 years and what he hopes to further change
What's he's done and hopes to do...
Great music choice

I was persuaded more by Burnham's than Kenyon's.

I am not sure how convincing raising Thatcherism is, considering there has been a three term labour government since then, presumably they therefore failed catastrophically to reverse the issues he is raising.