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How ironic - some HMRC staff essentially committing fraud.

(78 Posts)
FriedGreenTomatoes2 Wed 06-May-26 09:05:03

Exposed by the Telegraph and the Daily Mail.
Staff are apparently logging into their workplace WiFi from the car park to appear on their laptops they are in the office … before driving home.

Rosie51 Thu 07-May-26 11:04:39

LemonJam

Primrose53

LemonJam

PamelaJ1

Why was the officer remorseful LemonJam? I wonder if she was ashamed of her behaviour or sorry she was caught!

Because in your link the disciplinary hearing accepted that she was remorseful!

You’re getting confused. It was my link.

You know as well as I do that people will claim anything to clear their name or get a lesser sentence. The disciplinary Hearing obviously fell for it!

I think you are getting confused Primrose53. I did say "in your link".

lemonjam In the quote above you have clearly replied to PamelaJI saying it was in her link, when in fact Primrose53 posted the link and corrected you. I suspect you're the one who got confused.

Cossy Thu 07-May-26 11:12:03

EVEOHA2602

Civil servants were not allowed to run businesses at one time - I knew 2 who did - and one of them was an HMRC employee 👍☘️

They are now, but like taking a second job, have to inform their line manager and consent to do so can be withdrawn at any time if their main job at the CS suffering.

Cossy Thu 07-May-26 11:17:13

Btw, I simply don’t understand the story about the woman working for the housing association with a hospital appt, taking her laptop into a busy hospital and hiding in a corner to logon and “pretend” to be working?

As mentioned before, almost all organisations give reasonable time off for hospital appts and there would be zero need to do this?

LemonJam Thu 07-May-26 11:17:26

Rosie51; just checked back on posts and sequence and found the original link.

Yes I responded to PamelaJl's question and yes I made mistake in my reply to her- as the original link was provided by yourself.

Thank you for pointing that out and I apologise.

LemonJam Thu 07-May-26 11:18:58

Cossy

Btw, I simply don’t understand the story about the woman working for the housing association with a hospital appt, taking her laptop into a busy hospital and hiding in a corner to logon and “pretend” to be working?

As mentioned before, almost all organisations give reasonable time off for hospital appts and there would be zero need to do this?

I agree. Best to just be honest. Of course there may be reasons in the back ground why that particular person was doing this- but we can never know.

Primrose53 Thu 07-May-26 11:27:48

Cossy

Btw, I simply don’t understand the story about the woman working for the housing association with a hospital appt, taking her laptop into a busy hospital and hiding in a corner to logon and “pretend” to be working?

As mentioned before, almost all organisations give reasonable time off for hospital appts and there would be zero need to do this?

I am not asking you to “understand” my post. I was posting what actually happened. I did not say it was a “busy hospital” nor did I say she had an appointment either. She was accompanying a family member the same as I was. It was in the Big C centre within the hospital.
I don’t need to justify myself to you anyway.

Maremia Thu 07-May-26 11:31:42

I remember hearing about that memo, expecting everyone back at work. So they all came in, but there weren't enough desks. grin

EVEOHA2602 Thu 07-May-26 11:34:03

Cossy for the people I know it wasn’t a ‘job’ they were running businesses - one had a lingerie shop and the other an off licence 🙄

Galaxy Thu 07-May-26 11:43:15

Anecdotally I have just been observing that people are gradually returning to the office, obviously this is a requirement from some organisations but I do wonder if there are other factors at play. Heating, electricity, costs are all rising, or perhaps just the need for social contact around work. I had a look at the figures and it doesn't appear to be just the teams I observe, whilst obviously the wfh picture is very different to pre covid days, there has been an increase in people returning to the office in the last couple of years.
Flexi fraud is a thing and often difficult to prove. I am aware of someone who was dismissed for flexi fraud, it was a complex operation to gain the evidence.

DaisyAnneReturns Thu 07-May-26 12:02:13

The claim is based on a real newspaper report, but it’s important to separate:

what was actually reported,
what evidence was provided,
and what remains allegation or anecdote.

Here’s the situation:

The Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail reported claims from unnamed whistleblowers and insiders inside parts of the UK civil service, especially HMRC.
The reports alleged that some staff were:
briefly appearing in the office,
logging into office Wi-Fi from nearby car parks (“drive-by login”),
then going home while still being counted as present.
The phrase “drive-by login” was quoted as internal jargon allegedly used by managers at HMRC.

What is not established:

There is no publicly released dataset proving this is widespread.
No official investigation findings have yet confirmed the scale.
The stories rely heavily on anonymous sources and selective attendance records.
Even the reports themselves acknowledge that some non-attendance figures include maternity leave, sickness, field work, or staff based elsewhere.

So the most accurate summary is:

There probably have been some cases of employees gaming attendance systems.
That happens in many large organisations, public and private.
But headlines implying that huge numbers of civil servants are all pretending to work are not proven by the evidence currently public.

Also worth noting:

Hybrid work attendance tracking is often imperfect.
Connecting to Wi-Fi alone would not necessarily prove someone stayed in the office all day.
Most departments also track VPN usage, badge access, Teams activity, manager oversight, deliverables, etc., not just Wi-Fi presence.

The story has also become politically charged because:

some newspapers strongly oppose long-term remote working in the civil service,
while unions and many employees argue productivity should be judged by output, not desk presence.

So the “truth” is probably:

isolated abuse almost certainly exists, but the dramatic framing in the headlines goes well beyond what has actually been demonstrated publicly.

LemonJam Thu 07-May-26 12:06:05

You've summarised that nicely DAR 👏

Maremia Thu 07-May-26 12:11:13

Thank you DaisyAnneReturns.
Clickbait. And it worked.

Galaxy Thu 07-May-26 12:23:14

I am a bit wary of the dismissal of whistleblowers, many recent scandals have been highlighted by whistleblowers, within the NHS, postal service, etc, they play a vital function in society.

DaisyAnneReturns Thu 07-May-26 12:33:25

LemonJam

You've summarised that nicely DAR 👏

I didn't LemonJam although I think it covers all the angles. My front door bell rang so I posted it straight from AI GBT!

LemonJam Thu 07-May-26 12:36:20

It still did the trick DAR 😊

Galaxy Thu 07-May-26 12:42:12

Yes AI is very recognisable, I don't know if it is the 'tone' or something else more indefinable.

LemonJam Thu 07-May-26 13:23:07

Graphite

I thought I'd share this.

Reform telling supporters to "pull a sickie" so that can go leafleting tomorrow.

Has that made the headlines in the Mail and Telegraph?

No - for obvious reasons it looks bad for Reform. The irony that Reform wants to stop WFH in the public sector yet their leader is arguably one of the biggest culprits of all committing WFY fraud in his public escort employment because he prioritises his multiple other jobs.

That is, Farage is paid £98,599 a year for his MP role. Yet he rarely if ever holds a surgery in his constituency and rarely if ever attends Parliament. When is he actually working as an MP therefore. Does he do it WFH? He is very visible in his multiple other jobs, e.g. visibly seen on GB news most evenings. He has earned over £2 million in his others jobs since becoming an MP. Is he committing MP role WFH fraud? Is his public sector MP job being monitored in any way to check he is doing the MP work the tax payer is funding him to do?

Farage is quite happy to WFH in his cameo video role and writing columns for newspapers- so evidently does see the merits and values.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 07-May-26 14:00:10

Galaxy

I am a bit wary of the dismissal of whistleblowers, many recent scandals have been highlighted by whistleblowers, within the NHS, postal service, etc, they play a vital function in society.

👍 totally agree

Cossy Thu 07-May-26 14:02:39

EVEOHA2602

Cossy for the people I know it wasn’t a ‘job’ they were running businesses - one had a lingerie shop and the other an off licence 🙄

Have you heard of Nigel Farage? He’s an MP and he runs several businesses.

As far as I’m aware running 1, 10 or 100 businesses AND having a PAYE job isn’t a crime, if his PAYE Employer was satisfied he was doing his job properly and he was declaring his other income to HMRC, I just don’t see the issues.

So long as he wasn’t using his PAYE job’s equipment etc and met his obligations and targets in this job, what is your issue?

For some people this is actually the only way to meet their financial obligations.

When I purchased my flat, way back in the day, the only way I could make ends meet was to do one full time job in London then do a part time evening job.

Cossy Thu 07-May-26 14:05:38

Galaxy

I am a bit wary of the dismissal of whistleblowers, many recent scandals have been highlighted by whistleblowers, within the NHS, postal service, etc, they play a vital function in society.

Yes they do! Dismissing a whistleblower, even if their info/intel was completely accurate and they did it in good faith, will simply put others off doing the same.

Casdon Thu 07-May-26 14:14:59

Galaxy

I am a bit wary of the dismissal of whistleblowers, many recent scandals have been highlighted by whistleblowers, within the NHS, postal service, etc, they play a vital function in society.

Whistleblowers should however provide evidence to the organisation concerned first, who investigate and determine whether the case is proven. There is no report that the ‘anonymous civil servant’ or the ‘HMRC official’ have done so, that I can find. I’ve got no truck with people who go straight to the press rather than use the official channels as the first port of call.

Chocolatelovinggran Thu 07-May-26 16:00:44

WFH is embedded, now. As already stated, many offices are not equipped to deal with everyone being in the same place at the same time: " hot desking" is the norm in the working environment of my adult children.
The savings are significant. A nearby local authority was about to acquire much larger premises and has halted this, and the day to day running costs must be advantageously affected by employees who use their own electricity, loo rolls, heating, and do their own cleaning and waste disposal!
Of course there are rogue employees who exploit the system. Some people are " creative" in their work environment, whatever that might be.

maxmyers Thu 07-May-26 16:39:24

In the nineties I worked at a university where we had to teach evening classes. The system used to be that if you worked 2 evening classes you had a day free of teaching where you could WFH. This worked well until the Dept got a new Head in the early 2000’s, this woman was probably a sociopath and caused a lot of problems resulting in lots of staff leaving. She stopped WFH and insisted on all staff being present. As we shared offices it invariably meant that our work was constantly interrupted and we were less productive.
My DD is now a government lawyer and is a hybrid worker 60/40 home and office. She is very conscientious and works very hard. WFH suits her family responsibilities but she says that she misses the social aspect of office life - when she goes into the office she doesn’t see anyone else working on the same team.
Swings and roundabouts.

DaisyAnneReturns Thu 07-May-26 18:45:14

LemonJam

It still did the trick DAR 😊

You do have to ask the right question too smile

valdali Thu 07-May-26 21:14:01

LemonJam

Primrose53

I think there is some truth about these WFH reports.

www.wymondhamandattleboroughmercury.co.uk/news/26021202.norfolk-police-officer-resigned-faking-remote-working/

This detective constable pretended to be working at home by key jamming. She simply used a bottle of nail varnish!

I met a woman in a waiting area at the hospital recently who worked from home. She worked for a Housing Association. She went to a quiet corner of the waiting area and said she had to log on at a certain time. She said if she did so they would think she was working.

If there’s a way round anything, people will find it!

The officer rightly was made subject to disciplinary action and she was remorseful.

The vast majority of employers support employees attending hospital appointments. In fact I think claims can be made against employers who do not allow employees to attend hospital visits. Better just to be upfront and honest and inform the employer of the hospital appointment.

Of the very few employers not supportive of hooasitla visits time can usually be made up.

No reason the throw generally positive WFH arrangements out with the bath water....

I've always had to make time up for hospital appointments - once I was even told I couldn't go unless I made the time up beforehand - which doesn't make sense. NHS worker, several Trusts, over 20+ years.