Is wealth inequality causing the big issues of our day?

LemonJam

Barbadosbelle

.

Mmm. As Winston Churchill said -

"You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer".
..

I dont think Churchill actually did say that- there's no historical evidence that he did in either his writings and speeches. The Churchill society classifies this as a misattribution.

The Churchill society however quotes a similar, widely verified quote from American Adrian Rogers who said "You can not legislate the poor into property by legislating the wealthy out of property".

I don't think a wealth tax of the very rich is an aim to legislate the super wealthy out of prosperity- more the case hoping to claw back a relatively small proportion of their super wealth to redistribute to poorer members of society.

I have little faith that funds from a wealth tax being given to the poor by any government of the U.K. whatever colour rosette they wear.

David49

ronib

It must be the heat but… according to AI the Uk has 157 billionaires who hold £670 billion in assets.
The mansion tax from April 2028 will cost £380 million to set up and is expected to raise around £430 million annually.
Peanuts?

Another ideological tax little to do with raising revenue

Aren't all rises or falls in taxation ideological David49? Goverments lay out what they intend to do, people vote them into power and they the use taxation as one tool to help them bring about what they had laid out. All governments work this way.

DaisyAnneReturns

David49

ronib

It must be the heat but… according to AI the Uk has 157 billionaires who hold £670 billion in assets.
The mansion tax from April 2028 will cost £380 million to set up and is expected to raise around £430 million annually.
Peanuts?

Another ideological tax little to do with raising revenue

Aren't all rises or falls in taxation ideological David49? Goverments lay out what they intend to do, people vote them into power and they the use taxation as one tool to help them bring about what they had laid out. All governments work this way.

I would agree DAR.

The wealthy are already pay your 60% tax. I would not like to earn less than half of what I worked for

Twaddle, 2 million pounds is a normal price for a family house in the South East. Nothing fancy and there are many properties costing more, this is not an exceptional price. If you are living in a cheaper area then you are very lucky to not have to have a huge mortgage.
I would love to be able to buy a house for £500,000 as my money and my children’s money would go so much further and life would be a lot easier. It’s not as if salaries are higher they aren’t.

There are various tax bands for INCOME in the UK-
1) 0% up to £12,570 earnings, ie the personal allowance available to all
2) 20% basic tax between £12,571 to £50,270
3) 40% higher rate between £50,271 to £ 125,140
4) 45% tax rate for earnings over £125,140

Separately here are 2 bands of capital gains taxes payable when an asset or gift is disposed of ( apart from main residence) for the difference between what you said for it and what you sold it for.

For example Streeting has suggested a 'simple wealth tax' of raising the bands of capital gains tax to match the tax bands individuals pay on their income. So anyone with income over £125,140 would pay 45% CGT on the sale of an asset that is not NOT their main residence.

"your 60% tax"? Isn't it your tax system too Menopauselbitch?

Ordinary people have the power if they would just use it. Stop paying exorbitant prices on properties, cars, luxuries etc. then buisnesses would have to lower their prices. I’m amazed at the prices people are prepared to pay these days. Governments and big buisness must rub their hands with glee at all the monies they acquire from the over spenders and tax payers. Where does it all go? Not back to the people that’s for sure.

There has always been differences in wealth. The lowly peasants worked hard but got little reward. Their overlords took every penny to use for their own purposes.
What has changed is that the poor can now protest and demand fairer reward for their work.

He also gives away a huge chunk of his wealth every year.

I’d be ever so grateful if you’d pass on my address to your acquaintance twaddle. Many thanks.

Menopauselbitch

The wealthy are already pay your 60% tax. I would not like to earn less than half of what I worked for

It's not actually what you have worked to earn.

Mostly for the rich its at least work plus investments in property and shares and so on

for some rich that is all they get their money from ie invested/inherited family money

Those shares are generally based on other people's work

- ie investments in this and that,

"this and that" are actually companies who often pay their workers very little,

or investments in utilities which as we know we all pay heavily for and dont get a fair deal from

or property ownership making money from sometimes inflated rents.

and you can be very sure most of them have salted some of their money away in tax evasion schemes.

My sis pays 50% and is glad to. She worked in the NHS as did her husband for years and they know where the money goes and why. (plus her husband family money, which they have invested in property with fair rents and proper care of the renters, plus some ethical investments around green energy)

but she can relate to you stories that will make your hair crawl on end as to the offers they have had from financial advisors. Like a certain Mr Farage who speaks at conferences for the super rich.

Whitewavemark2

knspol

25Avalon

I get there are disproportionate differences in the amount of the wealth or the lack of it between the very rich and the poor. I’m not sure tax is the way forward however. To me one of the major factors is the amount of money that the top bosses earn. Even their bonuses are obscenely high. One poor family could live comfortably on that bonus for years.

Is it fair to disproportionally tax people who have worked hard all their lives, gained qualifications and expertise and now work in a cut throat environment and maybe responsible for the jobs of many others? I don't think so. High salaries and bonuses aren't generally paid out to people who aren't doing a good job (some head line exceptions I know) and to attract the best people for a job there have to be incentives.
I am in favour of higher taxes so long as they are universal but I think penalising people who have an expensive home or a large garden is simply the politics of envy.

These are not people who will be affected by wealth tax.

Whitewavemark2 how on earth can you make such a blanket statement, on what basis do you make such a comment?

"Aren't all rises or falls in taxation ideological David49? Goverments lay out what they intend to do, people vote them into power and they the use taxation as one tool to help them bring about what they had laid out. All governments work this way."

Not when they are directed at one section of the population, VAT on Private Schools, IHT on farmland, NI on businesses

Menopauselbitch

The wealthy are already pay your 60% tax. I would not like to earn less than half of what I worked for

The point being that they dont work for it. It is what is known as passive income.

knspol

Whitewavemark2

knspol

25Avalon

I get there are disproportionate differences in the amount of the wealth or the lack of it between the very rich and the poor. I’m not sure tax is the way forward however. To me one of the major factors is the amount of money that the top bosses earn. Even their bonuses are obscenely high. One poor family could live comfortably on that bonus for years.

Is it fair to disproportionally tax people who have worked hard all their lives, gained qualifications and expertise and now work in a cut throat environment and maybe responsible for the jobs of many others? I don't think so. High salaries and bonuses aren't generally paid out to people who aren't doing a good job (some head line exceptions I know) and to attract the best people for a job there have to be incentives.
I am in favour of higher taxes so long as they are universal but I think penalising people who have an expensive home or a large garden is simply the politics of envy.

These are not people who will be affected by wealth tax.

Whitewavemark2 how on earth can you make such a blanket statement, on what basis do you make such a comment?

Because it isn’t people with a large house or garden that is being targeted.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

^He also gives away a huge chunk of his wealth every year.^

I’d be ever so grateful if you’d pass on my address to your acquaintance twaddle. Many thanks.

I doubt if you fit the criteria.

Do tell us more Twaddle

@ LemonJam

You say:

I read WWM2's post to you at 09.45 asking "are you simply going to lie back and think of England whilst our assets are raped" and then read your reply "More or less yes". That's fine and that's your view but lying back and doing nothing won't change the status quo. The OP put forward a suggestion of a wealth tax which works well in some other countries.

Perhaps you can tell me how I can do anything to change the status quo, apart from trying to explain how it happened and what might be done about it? Which I have been doing for quite some time on this forum. With very little success.

Is this thread achieving anything? Has anyone learned anything from it? Has it changed anyone’s views on financial inequality? Has anyone taken any interest in suggested solutions? I doubt it.

Could you not even recognise that there was an element of sarcasm in my original response to being accused of lying back and thinking of England?

maizie I can’t understand your irritation at this thread.

You argue that you have been banging on about this for years with little success, but then say that threads like this serve little purpose because it changes no one’s mind.

TBh I have seen many threads which argue the case for MMT and Murphy’s case for it, but not so much his argument against wealth tax - because I think he is against them - but happy to be corrected.

I’m not sure that I ever start a thread in the hope of changing minds, but do so because I enjoy the ensuing debate and discussion as I am sure do you.

So why the irritation and sarcasm? Perhaps I am wrong and you are not irritated, merely feel that this thread serves little purpose? But do please allow those of us who want to discuss this the luxury of doing so without telling them it is pointless.

ronib

Do tell us more Twaddle

I assumed that FriedGreenTomatoes's post was a joke. My acquaintance has a trust and organisations can apply for funding. There are certain criteria which need to be met. I know of some organisations which have benefited over the years, many of which have had a positive impact on local areas or groups of individuals facing barriers to life.

The point is that he's a huge supporter of the UK (but doesn't need to fly flags), has no intention of emigrating, pays his taxes, has a great life and enjoys supporting causes which are important to him. Not every super-rich person is on the verge of emigrating to Dubai or Jersey or wherever.

I think we’re missing the point - it’s the aspirational not rich enough atm who are seeking tax free havens. Although why bother is my thinking! twaddle

Whitewavemark2 - Sat 23-May-26 09:31:23

I see threads such this one as a tool for learning and for thinking through conclusions I may have reached previously.

It's very obvious though that denying or challenging other people's economic gods may make them feel their self-worth, security, and opinion is being attacked. The response is often intense pushback, moral outrage, or dismissive accusations of being naive or ignorant in this area.

I don't know the answer to this as I doubt we will ever all agree entirely on this subject; it's one that will always be "debatable".

Whitewavemark2

Menopauselbitch

The wealthy are already pay your 60% tax. I would not like to earn less than half of what I worked for

The point being that they dont work for it. It is what is known as passive income.

The classic is the self employed craftsman who only works 3 days a week because then he doesn't have to charge VAT or go into the 40 % tax bracket.

It's hardly surprising, no incentive to put in more effort.

GrannyGravy13

The problem with resenting paying taxes arises when government after government squanders ££££’s on vanity projects like HS2…

Agree absolutely, GG!

"TBh I have seen many threads which argue the case for MMT and Murphy’s case for it, but not so much his argument against wealth tax - because I think he is against them - but happy to be corrected."

Why should we have confidence in economists their ideas have got us into the situation we are in now, a state has to live within its means, you can borrow to expand the economy, which is exactly what the UK has not been doing.