Is wealth inequality causing the big issues of our day?

GrannyGravy13

The problem with resenting paying taxes arises when government after government squanders ££££’s on vanity projects like HS2…

Those that the wealth tax would affect have almost certainly made money from HS2 - so bring it on they say!

It is our tax that contribute towards the ultra rich.

“How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political power to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics in the twentieth Century.”

This is precisely what the Tories have done for years, and what Reform UK is doing now, in front of our very eyes.

I'm always suprised by those on GN who argue as if they would be hurt by a wealth tax. I thought this might help.

Working Class:
Income Range: Typically up to around £25,000 - £35,000 annually.
Characteristics: Often includes manual workers, service industry employees, and those with lower-paid jobs. Income may be insufficient for significant savings or luxury spending.

Middle Class:
Income Range: Approximately £35,000 to £70,000-£100,000 annually.
Characteristics: Includes professionals, managers, and small business owners. Usually able to afford homeownership, some leisure activities, and moderate savings.

Rich (Upper Middle Class / Affluent):
Income Range: Usually starting from around £100,000 to several hundred thousand pounds annually.
Characteristics: Wealthy professionals, successful entrepreneurs, and high-level executives. Often owners of multiple properties, substantial savings, and investments.

Ultra-Rich (Elite / Wealthy):
Net Worth: Typically exceeding £1 million in liquid assets, but often much higher (e.g., £10 million+).
Characteristics: Ultra-high-net-worth individuals (UHNWI), billionaires, and multimillionaires with substantial assets, investments, and luxury lifestyles.

I'm in favour of a limited time wealth tax. However, although I recognise Rishi Sunak was honest and open about his taxes no one should legally be able to pay less on billions than those at the bottom of the table pay on a low income. I believe it's the overall tax system that needs long term reorganisation.

Whitewavemark2

ronib

The billionaire class will simply up sticks.

They haven’t in countries that have introduced a wealth tax. That is propaganda put out by the vastly wealthy.

But tbh that isn’t the point. Their assets like property/ stocks etc remains and this is what is being taxed.

Those states that have a wealth tax have so many exemption for business that it's only an ideological sop to the socialists and does not generate much revenue. Assets invested in active businesses is always taxed differently to that in stocks and shares, savings and pensions.

Billionaires and other wealthy people have most of the wealth invested in their companies, their wealth is the value of their shares which changes from year to year and is taxed when they are sold with CGT. Billionaires are an easy target but they are few in relation to the population and will not contribute much extra revenue that has to come from those that are above average income/wealth, you and I, pensioners are one group that has excess wealth.

We have already seen increased taxes on pensions and rental income, bringing CGT inline with income tax is probably the next move that is likely to be made because it's easy to administer. I don't foresee a separate wealth tax before the next GE.

Sometimes we do, Granatlast, so, thanks for bothering.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Harborne
Forgot the link though no one on GN ever follows them.

Sadly the internet has made a nonsense of government's ability to hold the wealthy to account. If you just look up the details of Christopher Harbonne, who donated that sum to Farage, he lives in Thailand now and spends his time throwing his money around political parties and whatever interest or scheme takes his fancy.

It is people like this whose ability to live where they want, spend their money where they want who actually control the world we live in via the stock market and investments. They can buy anything and anyone. The financial system as it exists is well out of control, it's mad to think that we will somehow lose out if they go and live elsewhere! I don't even see how a wealth tax will influence this because they will have a way out that the ordinary person doesn't have.

I would have to receive many millions before I'd have trouble spending it!

The words of Aneurin Bevan ring loud in our ears today:

“How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political power to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics in the twentieth Century.”

Of course, the wealthy will threaten to ‘up sticks’ if they fear some of their vast wealth might be distributed a bit more fairly.

MaizieD

25Avalon

I get there are disproportionate differences in the amount of the wealth or the lack of it between the very rich and the poor. I’m not sure tax is the way forward however. To me one of the major factors is the amount of money that the top bosses earn. Even their bonuses are obscenely high. One poor family could live comfortably on that bonus for years.

If tax isn't the way forward then what is?

And how do you go about curbing excessive pay and bonuses?

Exactly MaizieD. It is a terrible spiral. The higher the tax they pay the higher salary and bonuses they want to increase any real rise. Just how much do these people need and how do they spend it all I wonder.

25Avalon

I get there are disproportionate differences in the amount of the wealth or the lack of it between the very rich and the poor. I’m not sure tax is the way forward however. To me one of the major factors is the amount of money that the top bosses earn. Even their bonuses are obscenely high. One poor family could live comfortably on that bonus for years.

If tax isn't the way forward then what is?

And how do you go about curbing excessive pay and bonuses?

Non Uk nationals who are billionaires are moving out. Dubai, Monaco, Switzerland and Italy are their favoured destinations.
Yet another failed economic experiment by Labour?

twaddle

GrannyGravy13

The problem with resenting paying taxes arises when government after government squanders ££££’s on vanity projects like HS2…

Yep! That's the problem with Conservative governments!

I hate to point this out, but HS2 was initiated by a Labour government.

There was a 'point' to it; to relieve congestion on the West and East coast mainline routes, which were to continue taking freight and 'ordinary' passenger traffic while HS2 was for fast services to connect the north and south.

IMO it has suffered from poor procurement and profiteering, as well as delays in the planning process. It's now a bit pointless as it has to stop short of 'the North'.

I get there are disproportionate differences in the amount of the wealth or the lack of it between the very rich and the poor. I’m not sure tax is the way forward however. To me one of the major factors is the amount of money that the top bosses earn. Even their bonuses are obscenely high. One poor family could live comfortably on that bonus for years.

Granatlast007

ronib

The billionaire class will simply up sticks.

And the statistics on this have been shown to be absolute rubbish, the UK with its lax laws on taxation and the ability of billionaires and others to hide their cash makes it well worth staying here. One of the lobbies behind Brexit was those wanting to avoid forthcoming EU legislation about declaring overseas investment.

Of course they won't up sticks, even if they do have residences in other countries. The UK offers too much to people with money and it's just a good place to live.

GrannyGravy13

The problem with resenting paying taxes arises when government after government squanders ££££’s on vanity projects like HS2…

Yep! That's the problem with Conservative governments!

ronib

£2 million is the price of a standard middle class house in the South East.

Not in all parts of the South East. I know many many people with so-called middles class backgrounds/jobs in the South East who don't live in houses worth £2 million.

The trouble is that some people just don't know how ordinary/middle class people live (no wonder Reform does so well! )

The problem with resenting paying taxes arises when government after government squanders ££££’s on vanity projects like HS2…

ronib

The billionaire class will simply up sticks.

They haven’t in countries that have introduced a wealth tax. That is propaganda put out by the vastly wealthy.

But tbh that isn’t the point. Their assets like property/ stocks etc remains and this is what is being taxed.

ronib

The billionaire class will simply up sticks.

And the statistics on this have been shown to be absolute rubbish, the UK with its lax laws on taxation and the ability of billionaires and others to hide their cash makes it well worth staying here. One of the lobbies behind Brexit was those wanting to avoid forthcoming EU legislation about declaring overseas investment.

In the past houses were homes and few people actually bought their home, renting was normal. Now houses are seen as investments and have become one of the many entitlements that modern people see as normal.

For instance, someone the other day on the BBC was reported as angry because their flat in the former Olympic village could only sell for £50,000 less than their £450,00 asking price. They were losing out because of the cladding fiasco and fire risk, their response was to rent out the flat and buy a second house elsewhere! Mind boggling to me. I'm afraid I have no sympathy, they had bought the flat as an investment. Well sometimes you lose but the mindset now says someone else must pay for this and I must not lose out on my wealth accumulation.

Plain selfishness has become the norm. p.s. if a £2 million pound house is now a middle class norm, I must be less than a peasant in my 'under half a million' semi!!

The billionaire class will simply up sticks.

ronib

£2 million is the price of a standard middle class house in the South East.

Ronib

“The average house price in South East England is approximately £377,000 to £382,000 for standard mortgage-backed sales. For properties coming onto the market, average asking prices sit between £441,000 and £489,500, with wide variations based on property type and specific location.Regional property values have generally remained flat or experienced slight annual declines compared to previous years.

Average Prices by Property Type:

Detached houses: £719,850
Semi-detached houses: £472,260
Terracedhouses: £408,950:
Flats: £250,000”

I think the ‘standard middle class person’ (whatever that is) should be OK.

The whole issue of vast wealth and the ability to accumulate and influence needs reform as a matter of urgency, as it is running away from us at a huge pace

Yes Ronib that why I said the starting levels need looking at because (mainly) housing costs in parts of the country.

The gap in house prices is a top dilemma really, how can we fix that?

But it's not all about costs, it's about availability. All those empty properties in London owned as 2nd or 3rd home owners or just investments.