Should the Judge in the teenagers rape case be struck off ?

Cardamom Then he (Jusge) needs his head and his judgement examining!

Lots and lots of boys are brought up in violent, chaotic, dysfunctional households, they don’t plan, then carry out, video and share, a disgusting attack on innocent girls!

I understand the case is going to appeal so the judgement will be looked at again- hopefully soon.

The non custodial aspect of this has rightly caused outrage and huge, unwarranted distress for the young victims and their families. Gisele Pelicot has also publicly stated she is deeply shocked by the decision not to jail these boys. She says the young woman, 15 at the time of the rape who spoke on LK was brave- "I really salute her strength and the decision she made..."

What we do need though in the UK is better Youth Offending Institutions that deliver the custodial/ punishment aspect for serious offenders, but also education and rehabilitation. YOI in the UK compares badly with other countries.

^ What we do need though in the UK is better Youth Offending Institutions that deliver the custodial/ punishment aspect for serious offenders, but also education and rehabilitation. YOI in the UK compares badly with other countries.^

I agree LemonJam

But does it work e.g.

Youth Mitigation: In Sweden, youth is considered a distinct mitigating factor in sentencing, and statutory minimum sentences for those under 21 are often disregarded in favor of day-fines or lighter sanctions.

In Sweden:?Between 2015 and 2023, recorded offences linked to children under 15 more than doubled.

I like the suggestion in Spain
Regional Integration: Sentences are often carried out in the young offender's home region to preserve family ties, which aids in behavioral transformation.
Meaning the parents are also involved in the rehabilitation.
Parents even those in the poor family backgrounds might be more aware if people knew the named children involved.

Thanks Mollygo- I think the UK needs to look at where it works better and look at the reasons- what you post about Spain seems to have some merit.

Take the best form the best- it has to be BOTH- punishment/custodial for serious offences and behavioural change. If not they are at high risk of becoming repeat offenders and more young women and girls will suffer in the the future.

Ashcombe

I fear that there’s a possibility that the judge may have been threatened, given the background of the three boys.

Yes. That crossed my mind too.

I have heard that new guidelines particularly for underage perpetrators has to be much broader. This does need to be taken into account and each case will have different and multi-layered differences. I think judges are under pressure to give non custodial sentences where appropriate. It may be likely that these boys are genuinely remorseful at what they did. The problem is none of us or the poor girls know the mitigating reasons for the judges decision. However it doesn't bode well for girls and women, to feel so unheard and dismissed after very serious and degrading, life-changing sexual rape. Their fear would have been immense. I suspect those boys are now themselves mortified at what they did. So possibly the judge may have chosen the lesser punishment as the most appropriate for them. However this lesser punishment may not be the best message to send to other boys of their age.

It is hard to conclude that these boys might be mortified at what they have done.

Their crimes were so violent, used a knife, premeditated and filmed for posting on SM that it is impossible to think they did not know they were doing wrong.

They showed up prepared with a phone and a knife, having lured this girl via SM. They knew what they had planned.

I do understand about mitigation - I have a family member who has fallen foul of the law and has benefitted from mitigating please - but they committed nothing quite as bad ot r premeditated as this.

Well if they are mortified that would be a start but they pleaded not guilty to a sickening crime that there's no way they'd have been found not guilty for, so forcing those poor girls to relive what had happened.

I agree with rehabilitation but it should go hand in hand with punishment; it shouldn't take precedence.

Don't judges usually give a detailed explanation of why they have reached their verdict and the resulting sanction?

I suspect those boys are now themselves mortified at what they did.

Doubt it. "The court was told one of the boys had ADHD and "long-standing anxiety" not sure how carrying out 2 separate rapes of young girls has to do with being anxious

"while the other also had an ADHD diagnosis and an IQ in the "bottom 1%". he was bright enough to carry out both rapes, film them and upload them to social media

"The 14-year-old was described as having "mild cognitive impairment". --so not sufficiently impaired that he was able to employ self preservation, by lying, to save his own skin.

I apologise I for some reason hadn't taken in the full details of the case. I have just realised that it was two separate cases, they are in fact, already serial rapists.

surfsup

Ashcombe

I fear that there’s a possibility that the judge may have been threatened, given the background of the three boys.

What is their background?

I imagine threatening a judge would have seen the parents in court before they could say Jack Robinson! It's a serious offence and even if it was his word against theirs, as a judge his word must carry a lot of weight.

surfsup

Ashcombe

I fear that there’s a possibility that the judge may have been threatened, given the background of the three boys.

What is their background?

They are travellers.

Thank you Ashcombe, I didn’t know that.

I had a run in with two traveller boys last year when I’d been cycling. I was in a village sat on a bench having a breather and a drink when I noticed two lads racing about the lane on motorised scooters. I suspected they were travellers and was slightly uneasy as my bike is quite an expensive one. Sure enough they approached me - one looked about 14/15 and the other about 12/13. One wanted to have a go on my bike and I declined. They were asking me where I’d cycled from and I told them and although I was perfectly friendly towards them they started getting nasty and accusing me of lying - they didn’t believe I’d cycled 15 miles. Finally the younger one said “you haven’t come from Colston you’ve come from your mam’s c***!

Sounds silly now but it quite upset and unnerved me. I’m 63 and was chatting to them pleasantly but to no avail. Thankfully they rode off shouting insults and as soon as they were out of sight I pedalled off and didn’t stop until I was in a less remote area.

Makes one wonder how they are brought up.

My experience, as a teacher, of the traveller community, is there is a certain " macho" culture, combined with keeping girls close . I am sure that it's not every traveller, but I have met this in discussions with boys raised this way.
I'm not convinced that the boys will be meeting, at home, with the kind of opprobrium that might be expected.

The judge certainly needs to attend a refresher sentencing course, and one on sexual crimes. Are there courses for judges to attend?

i always feel that these judges are firstly so out of touch with the world they have no idea what goes on bar what they read in the Times or Telegraph. To be honest they all need sacking. Most are of the age too which any other job they would be long gone

Yes judge needs to reprimanded and investigated.
Trauma at any level has consequences ie a life of fear, depression, PTSD definitely, not being able to trust, communicate easily at least etc. I won’t expand. The perpetrators get to move on with a sympathetic pat on the back as though they’ve just been naughty boys!!!!!the victims bless them WONT move on easily. Victims may learn to cope but FIXED IMO, nope. They probably carry mental scars and maybe physical.

Rowland is a total and utter disgrace, and clearly so out of touch with reality it’s truly frightening, given his position. The message here “is if you come from a troubled background and are on the spectrum, then the law does not apply to you “. I agree with others, send him to a rape crisis centre. I wonder if he has daughters ? How would he feel if these feral monsters raped his own daughter ? It’s a well known fact that qualifications are no substitute for basic common sense, and that clearly applies here, and he has previous for poor decisions. It’s heartwarming that the whole country is up in arms over this and even Giselle P has spoken out, and now it will go to appeal, let’s hope the monsters don’t disappear in the meantime. Yes, our prisons are overcrowded, understaffed etc, they’ve been in decline for 20 years now and it’s about time it was addressed. Watch Richard Madeley tonight C5 at 9pm.

What was he thinking that he thought this was ok. There’s no deterrent to stop boys doing this again. Yes, I think he should be struck off. His behaviour is abominable.

How far from real life, common sense and justice are some of these judges? Unbelievable!

Reluctant to admit it, but I used to work in the justice system in a senior capacity. I don’t agree with the sentence but actually judges don’t have as much leeway as you would think, there are guidelines which must be followed otherwise the sentence can be appealed.
Believe it or not, but judges have to do a considerable amount of annual training which includes input from rape crisis and domestic violence centres.

I must also add that it’s possible the judge had in mind that all the evidence shows that youth custody is completely ineffective in rehabilitation or deterrence. Arguably, it doesn’t even work to protect the public as most offenders come out worse than when they go in, and progress to more extreme offending.
I doubt that the judge passed the sentence he did because of threats from the travelling community, although it is true that the job has got more dangerous, and judges have been attacked in court. It is more likely that he was mindful of guidance in the Equal Treatment Benchbook that the Traveller community is subject to discrimination.

It’s difficult to go through terrible things in your life let us hope that they are provided with the help they are entitled to. Maybe the Judge should pay for counselling?
The boys should have a custodial sentence long enough and hard enough to have an impact.