Should the Judge in the teenagers rape case be struck off ?

If they are doing this sort of thing at this age, what will they do in the future.

The so called sentence is disgraceful.

I am the mother of two grown men. If my boys had committed such a heinous crime I would have expected and welcomed a prison sentence. The prison sentence is not only a deterrent but shows the victims they have been heard and justice done.
We as a society have to defend the victims in all crimes. Any rebuilding of these boys lives should take place in a boot camp. I'm sorry if I offend the sensitive souls but this country needs a firm hand.

Sack the judge immediately and also examine other recent cases he’s tried as he certainly is not fit to sit in judgement

'from an underprivileged background and giving them a criminal record may not have been a good idea'.

If you read some of the early reports, grandMattie, it would appear the boys' background was not particularly under privileged; they are from a community those in authority are often advised to 'go easy' on.

I am sure the judge would have preferred to give the boys a full sentence but he was unable to as that would be going against the law as it stands now when 14 yr olds are classed as still being kids I just hope they will now change the law as I agree that those poor young ladies must still be affected and could be for life not being able to trust men.

What does this lenient scentence say to other 14/15 year olds - that they can commit rape and then hide behind their age?
If they're able to do the crime then they're able to do the time and he should have been made an example of them.
I wonder how the judge would have reacted if it had been his daughter who was raped?
I also wonder what kind of scentence he would have given if those lads had raped another boy?

This cannot be allowed to stand, if rape is dismissed in this manner then girls and women everywhere are not safe and never will be. We already know that many girls and women don’t even report rape because they know they won’t be taken seriously, this verdict just emphasises this.
A terrible reflection upon how some in the judicial system regard rape and why a minority of boys and men feel they can get away it.
Have written to my MP about this and would suggest others do likewise.

Good idea. A female Judge attemptedto give a balanced opinion on this whole caseon TV last night- whilst I applaud her attempt to try to justify the situation I feel it does send the wrong message out.
Yes, these boys are still technically children but children need educating and girls deserve to be able to go about their lives without being treated like this.
I wonder if there is something to be said for having female only judges handling the sentencing for these cases?
There is no justice here. I hope the appeal shows that women can still trust the system.

For Winterwhite, and that ultra-liberal, utterly feeble guff about "I think it a pity if custody is regarded as the ultimate sentence and anything else means being let off lightly. Penalties that can be worked through in the community can be just as effective as both punishment and deterrent against reoffending, especially for young offenders. I wouldn’t think that a community sentence automatically implies that rape isn’t regarded as a serious crime." --- to a MASS of the British population, that is EXACTLY what such a sentence implies, not so much 'slap on the wrist', as a a free pass to go and do it again, it was so much fun the first time?

To those wanting the imbecilic judge not just re-trained, but stuck off, he must be close to retirement age, called to the Bar in 1988, a 'Recorder' in 2005, and a 'Circuit Judge' since 2014. I suspect he'll soon be given a role more suited to his, er, 'talents'. In my world, he'd have a few weeks at a sewage works, with a shovel.

According to the Spectator (isn't Google wonderful?) the culprits are 'traveller boys', which of course gives them extra privileges, as that group can defile chunks of parks, open ground and private property, (not to mention quadruple the petty crime rate wherever they pitch up), with every expectation that the 'Law' won't be applied to them as it would the rest of us (who actually pay to help run the country, not leech off it).

And doubtless the Judge has never mixed with the Traveller community, so may have applied entirely the wrong (lack of) thinking?

So, those wanting the Judge removed may get their wish, PLUS let's hope the 'sentencing guidelines' in which he managed to find sufficient leeway DO get some serious reworking?

I ALSO see that one of the boys has played the 'ADHD' card, and suffers from "anxiety" . . . . . oh dear, poor little chap. Time I think to get him reassessed, as if he can plan and carry out a rape, at knifepoint, and get it all filmed, he's clearly NOT that 'anxious', and there can't be much wrong with his supposed 'Attention Deficit'?

For anyone still sympathetic, re his "poor background", kindly DO NOT insult those of us who came from an ultra-poor background but didn't go off the rails. I'd point you to the States, where masses of black kids, from extremely humble backgrounds, AND suffering from their accentuated racism issues, have gone on to be leaders in sports, the arts, politics, and assorted professions, etc etc. And doubtless some of THEM had some 'anxieties' along the way, like having to avoid the local KKK most nights?!

I'd GO FURTHER -- for those committing such serious offences, repulsive to the majority of the population, but presently in a special category due to being 'underage', let's prosecute the PARENTS too. They can then try to present some excuses about why their dragged-up offspring have been allowed out to worsen our allegedly civilised society?

What I can't understand given the horrendous crimes committed by so called children that the parents weren't charged with the offences too. Just how much responsibility are adukts supposed to have in regard to their offspring. The boys have been returned to their homes, environments supposedly contributing to their actions. Beggars belief!

Cossy

I understand that simply locking them away may not be the best of action for them, the perpetrators, but surely the safety and peace of mind for their victims and other girls should be paramount in this case?

Couldn't agree more.

Our justice system needs investigating! This is Lammy’s trial without jury! We have a system where there is no justice for the victims at all!
The judge is a disgrace. Total disgrace who should not be anywhere near a court room!
No thought whatsoever for the victims, they have life sentences having nightmares for ever!
What a mess

These boys may have technically still be children but they have committed adult men's crimes and should be punished in the same way. They certainly need long custodial sentences. These do not necessarily need to be in an adult prison but certainly in youth custody and they need to be made to see the consequences of their actions.

I've read all the comments so far and can't understand anyone worrying to much about the well being of these horrid boys.
We skirt around the degradation, the horror, the fear, the shame, the sleepless nights, the physical pain involved in the crimes against two innocent girls. The struggle their families will have trying to help and comfort them. Their fear of boys and men. Going back into school, facing their friends.
We clean up the act and the violence with words that soften the narrative for our sensitive ears.
Are the videos still out there as they will have been shared and shared again.
We really need to bring back boot camps and maybe councillors to help these boys understand their crimes. As for sending the judge to a rape crisis centre, that's insensitive unless he's sent to observe in a male rape crisis centre because we should never forget this can happen to boys and men as well.

maxmyers

Reluctant to admit it, but I used to work in the justice system in a senior capacity. I don’t agree with the sentence but actually judges don’t have as much leeway as you would think, there are guidelines which must be followed otherwise the sentence can be appealed.
Believe it or not, but judges have to do a considerable amount of annual training which includes input from rape crisis and domestic violence centres.

Thank you for saying this.
If we don't know all the details of the case we can only say that it sounds lenient.

However, someone I'm close to who, alongside another young woman was a victim of a similar crime said she was having to "bite her tongue" over this.

She was pleased that the emphasis was on rehabilitation.

She said that the people she knew who has been a victim of male sexual violence, of any age, would much rather nobody else was harmed by them than see them locked up and then reoffend. She said "we all deserve better than prisons".

There is an old Feminist theory that says that a lot of men still think that the domestic violence and sexual abuse against women. Is normal and warranted in every case.

There is a deep down hatred of women and they deserve everything they get. Men must have power over women at all.times.

Saw this case being discussed on a TV news programme and the guide lines on sentencing. So these monsters managed to slip through the net. Because this awful judge thought they met one of these criteria.

Does this judge have children? Daughters?

I think he is a disgrace to the profession and should be dis robed or dis barred or whatever the term is.

This case makes me want to weep for the victims. It is heartbreaking.

DrWatson
Excellent!
I’d just written a post suggesting that since these children are too young for punishments that would seriously curtail their liberty, the parents should be named and held responsible for their offspring. It disappeared before I could post it.
Then I saw your post, which said so much more and so much better.

Having worked with young offenders in a past life, I just wish we had better custodial facilities for young offenders that focused on restitution and rehabilitation instead of being a training ground for further criminality. I certainly don't think that a community based sentence was an appropriate punishment for what these boys did and sadly neither do I think a custodial sentence would change the trajectory of these boys lives. Out criminal justice system is a mess and society will probably suffer the consequences of these boys for decades either in terms of further criminality and/or in paying for them to be in one of our jails.

foxie48
sadly neither do I think a custodial sentence would change the trajectory of these boys lives

I don’t think it will either, but for the girls affected, the knowledge that their abusers will not be on the streets is a huge benefit.

I listened to the parents of one girl who said that his daughter has a life sentence because of the attack and though a life sentence would never be awarded to the culprits, there should be something that will impact on their future lives.
Sadly, unless the rapists plan to apply for legitimate work, it’s difficult to see how that can be implemented.

foxie48 is right. There is no way these boys will go on to lead normal law-abiding lives. Sounds defeatist, but it is realistic.

The important thing here is deterrence for others who might be tempted to do the same and a sense of justice having been served for the victims.

I speak as someone who sadly has an adopted relative in the prison system - sadly there are some who cannot be rehabilitated.

Disgraceful! They shoukd defo have a custodial sentence! 1. They knew what they were doing. 2. Filming it and putting it online! 3. The trauma and lifelong damage it has caused these young girls! 4. They done it twice!!! 4. Law sending out message that 'they have been naughty as they are just children!' 5. Community service!!!!🤬🤬🤬. They will do it again!!!All need to be given custodial sentences, separately not in same institution! Makes me so angry....and so sad for the girls and their families, they have a life long sentence!🤬😭

He should be sacked or stand down in my opinion

The fact that a knife was produced to tear one girl’s clothing to facilitate the rape, shows that there was a possibility of eventual wounding, as well as the actual sexual violence. It was a physical assault, with proof of intent that should incur a custodial sentence. There are plenty of young people with difficult backgrounds who become hardworking individuals, who contribute usefully to society, they don’t become rapists or criminals. These young rapists should be taught that the punishment fits the crime and that they should be thoroughly ashamed of their actions. The danger here is that they have seen that they can get away with it and will go on to commit more and more serious crimes. I am in favour of rehabilitation, but this should be after a suitable punishment, possibly in a young offenders’ institution. At their age they knew what they were doing. Two separate girls were targeted so the boys’ actions were calculated and planned. There definitely should be an appeal. The psychological damage to the girls involved cannot be underestimated and the judge has increased this.

Cardamom

^There’s plenty of videos or stories of these awful crimes that Mr Judge could read, if people feel he needs further education.^

He saw the videos of the rapes. He had to watch them as part of the evidence submitted by the prosecution. He watched the boys laughing and urging each other on whilst calling the victims disgusting names. And he STILL thought that, despite finding them guilty of 10 rape convictions between them, that they are essentially good lads who just got led astray by social media and, to underline his support for them he complimented them on their behaviour whilst awaiting trial. No wonder male on female violence is on the increase.

I really really wonder about this particular judge😲

Violetbynight

The fact that a knife was produced to tear one girl’s clothing to facilitate the rape, shows that there was a possibility of eventual wounding, as well as the actual sexual violence. It was a physical assault, with proof of intent that should incur a custodial sentence. There are plenty of young people with difficult backgrounds who become hardworking individuals, who contribute usefully to society, they don’t become rapists or criminals. These young rapists should be taught that the punishment fits the crime and that they should be thoroughly ashamed of their actions. The danger here is that they have seen that they can get away with it and will go on to commit more and more serious crimes. I am in favour of rehabilitation, but this should be after a suitable punishment, possibly in a young offenders’ institution. At their age they knew what they were doing. Two separate girls were targeted so the boys’ actions were calculated and planned. There definitely should be an appeal. The psychological damage to the girls involved cannot be underestimated and the judge has increased this.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
We’ve probably all watched the tv drama Adolescence which brilliantly underlined the casual misogyny and violence towards girls and women from teenage boys.