Henry Nowak…….an absolute tragedy.

Oreo

It’s on page 30 only and isn’t offensive at all.

Its very presence is offensive - what on earth was going on in the poster’s mind to bring A into the thread? And then for some of you to excuse it. And as I need to repeat again, it’s not just about that thread. It’s about the irritating tactics you are using across GN.

Wyllow3

the matter that strikes me thinking back over the threads is how out side actors - ie from the USA - have tried to intervene in our UK affairs.

That it is very hard indeed to "get right" working within a framework where racism and sexism is understood, for the benefit of the victims of those crimes and Novak is one of the saddest we have come across.

But certainly as a woman who has had help from the police with changed attitudes thanks to this sort of training, and remembering the likes of the Stephen Laurence case, where the murder of a very ordinary and studious young black man was dealt with in a careless and disgraceful manner, it is necessary for our police and other services to understand the issues:

It's a matter of getting it right in practice. And it's not helped by police shortages that impact on other crimes.

Nevertheless whipping up hate for the police as a whole group I feel is seriously counter productive for the well being of our society as a whole.

Seriously, do we want mob rule where we head towards attacks on the rule of law itself in the end:

and those politicians who would attempt to import those ideas (and often take a good deal of money from the likes of Musk)

We should stand against their influence.

Well said and I entirely agree

Chocolatelovinggran

This appalling tragedy will, hopefully, result in some thinking, in the police, about how they deal with events in which only one " side" of the story is told by a group of people who are friends/ family of the complainant.
However, comments on how modern policing policies are too " woke " ( whatever that means) ignores the many reports that there is institutional racism and sexism in some parts of the service.
Wayne Couzens was known to behave in a predatory way around women, but none of his colleagues reported this.
Most police officers are good people doing a very difficult job, but not all, and this is not the problem of policy makers.
Not everything wrong in law enforcement is due to " wokeness"

👏👏👏👏

“Tuliptree

Oreo
It’s on page 30 only and isn’t offensive at all.
Its very presence is offensive - what on earth was going on in the poster’s mind to bring A into the thread? And then for some of you to excuse it. And as I need to repeat again, it’s not just about that thread. It’s about the irritating tactics you are using across GN.”

Whilst I do get your point Tuliptree, I don’t think there was any intent to be offensive nor to “use irritating tactics”

You’ve made your point, and set up a good thread containing some extremely good points.

May we now please move on.

Cossy -wrong thread

I find it very sad that this particular thread and others, have degenerated.

Maybe it would be good to ask, what would be a good way ahead to enable police and other services to have a clear understanding of the social/cultural forces at work in our society, (and maybe the abuses with the police and other services in the past with the actual services could hare been addressed sooner:

But theoretical understanding has to be put into practice better than it always has been, and thats where we put so much strain on our men and women in the police force as they struggle with day to day realities. Probably currently not enough discussion and transparency on the "how to" in particular examples, since race and gender do still affect particular crimes.

Novaks family have asked for lessons to be learnt so it doesnt happen again. Wise words, not to respond with hatred.

Did they urge Farage to hatful words" NO!
Stirring up more hate and division - where is there anything good in that?

so what I am saying is more support for the police to have honest and transparent discussions on the most difficult areas. they are the ones on the ground, not you nor I.

Magenta8

I find it very sad that this particular thread and others, have degenerated.

I agree.

Going back to a comment made by Lyndie, apologies if spelling is incorrect, where she said something like, those Officers did not go out to do harm.
Which, in a way, is relevant to Wyllow's post just now.

ronib

The evidence if you want to call it that is that Henry Nowak took just over one hour to die from stab wounds. I don’t know how a pathologist would know for sure that with medical intervention, his life may have been saved or not.

The family who do have full access to the pathologists detailed report have not challenged the finding that Henry suffered a non-survivable wound.

When he lost consciousness, that indicated a loss of oxygen supply to his brain from a massive bleed.

Some stab wounds cause more internal than external damage/ bloodloss. A stab wound in the chest /trunk which severed any major internal blood vessel could cause a non-survivable internal bleed , detectable post mortem .

Certainly not savable by any medical intervention on the street.

No officers didn’t go out to do harm but in any profession or occupation, it is normal to accept responsibility for your own mistakes and their repercussions.
There may be mitigating circumstances, but it doesn’t absolve officers from professional responsibility surely?

Tuliptree

Oreo

It’s on page 30 only and isn’t offensive at all.

Its very presence is offensive - what on earth was going on in the poster’s mind to bring A into the thread? And then for some of you to excuse it. And as I need to repeat again, it’s not just about that thread. It’s about the irritating tactics you are using across GN.

FGS give this a rest please as you already have a thread going on it.
I didn’t post anything on this thread unless about the tragic case we are all discussing but thought Maremia and Cossy’s and Wyllow3 mentions of a banned poster were inoffensive.
The last time I looked we can all give our opinion on any subject.

GrannyGravy13

Magenta8

I find it very sad that this particular thread and others, have degenerated.

I agree.

So do I 🤬

Getting back on track…. I have read that the killer’s Mother will be charged, quite rightly, but surely the brother and Father would be too?

ronib

No officers didn’t go out to do harm but in any profession or occupation, it is normal to accept responsibility for your own mistakes and their repercussions.
There may be mitigating circumstances, but it doesn’t absolve officers from professional responsibility surely?

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

The mother is in custody but the father and brother are on bail according to the BBC.

Oreo

Getting back on track…. I have read that the killer’s Mother will be charged, quite rightly, but surely the brother and Father would be too?

Totally agree, the brother should be charged. He rang the Police, wilfully lied and made false allegations then sent the police out looking at another crime. This does not absolve the police though there behaviour at the scene was dreadful.

Top new item today (Beeb 1pm news) was the start of the prosecutions of those who took part in the attacks on police in Southhampton.

26 Under Charge - some real ignorant nastiness on show, it's just starting more news to come.

Also the as shocking how police had to go into hiding, read this and watch the video

www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cg4p4lr9v35o

Former police officer Christi Hill has tells how she has been forced into hiding and is fearful for her safety after she and another officer were misidentified on social media as being involved in the arrest of Henry Nowak.
Bodycam footage released this week shows 18-year-old Henry being handcuffed by officers as he repeatedly said he couldn't breathe. The other officer, PC Tristan Parsons was out of the country - and Christi Hill had left the force more than a year before the incident.

I think the brother should charged for his part in this atrocity. He lied to the police and failed to mention that a stabbing had taken place even saying no weapons were at the scene.
He continued to lie at the scene knowing that Henry had been stabbed.
He should join his brother in prison as he could have had an ambulance there as well as police.
A very nasty family.

Thanks Rosie
The audio did make it sound like "nothing much" to see here.

It sounds like he doesn't know a lot. I wonder if he even knew that Henry had been stabbed at this point?
Or was he playing the innocent - distancing himself?

Someone will no doubt have separated off the background voices and enhanced them so when his trial is reported on we will know more.

A terrible terrible thing to happen anyway.
And what does the neighbour do?
Where are they in this?

I daresay we will find out more eventually.

ronib, just Upthread, I think your point about responsibility of the professionals involved is something that will be under serious official scrutiny just now.

There is a charge for that AGAA4. Think it's called 'accessory after the effect', or similar wording.

Or 'aiding and abetting' perhaps.

The father and brother of Digwa HAVE been charged, case being heard in July, mother to be sentenced in July at a separate hearing.

Yes, AGAA4, the offence I mentioned could apply to giving assistance after the crime,
and your 'offence' could be about before and during.
Someone on the Thread will know, and advise.