Henry Nowak…….an absolute tragedy.

Terribull

Thank you for this. I don’t agree this should be taught to secondary school students, however I’m afraid I do agree with the assertion of what and how racism occurs.

I understand that doesn’t make me, or the “paper” right.

The victim's bleeding, from five stab wounds, was at first internal and not immediately apparent in the dark, but he was conscious and able to say he could not breathe, as his lungs were filling with blood; the police ignored him instead arresting and handcuffing him. The weapon has been described as an eight inch blade and also a 21 inch ceremonial dagger, but deadly enough to cause almost immediate death,

The perpetrator called the police, not an ambulance and told them he had been racially abused. He also called his parents and brother, his mother removed and concealed the weapon. The police have refused to release their body-cam footage.
There has been no public comment from Keir Starmer or the government, but apparently Elon Musk has commented.

Sago

It’s interesting how our Prime Minister and other politicians “took the knee for George Floyd yet nothing from Starmer on the Police’s dreadful handling of this case.

So you are using this awful murder to cast aspirations on other events??

Shane on you!

As you’ll be well aware the George Floyd case in the USA was one of many where white police officials damaged/hurt/killed black people and proved to be a catalyst for many people.

This does not take away from the awfulness of this murder nor the incompetence of the police in this situation and it all needs further investigation.

Floyd was murdered in 2020, Starmer was not PM at that time.

Do you genuinely believe our PM should comment on murders??

Cossy

I can fully understand the outrage at the police actions and the handling of the case.

I cannot understand using the death of this poor young man being used to promote yet more negative feelings g towards the entire cohort of people to whom this wicked Sikh man belongs!

It’s so typical, sadly, to use this murder as an excuse to criticise Sikhs.

The perpetrator was a vile man firstly who happened to be a Sikh.

I agree with this. Sikhs are known to be kind, peaceful people. Unfortunately, there will always be the occasional 'bad apple', as there are in all demographics.

I'm sure I won't be alone in stating that this won't alter my (positive) feelings towards Sikhs.

I would also like to think that Sikhs in general will be appalled by his actions. I just hope Sikhs aren't targeted in retaliation for this.

Cossy

TerriBull

That poor young man and his family.

Sikhs are generally law abiding and well respected communities but there are always aberrations.

On the question of race and ethnicity what is wrong is how some schools are imbuing their pupils with the notion that only white people can be racist and will be the only demographic who commit crimes of a racist nature.

I have yet to come across a school which has done this?

Have you any credible evidence to back up your claim?

"Educational materials developed by a group of Sheffield schools The Anti Racist Education Alliance Sheffield which is anchored by the Notre Dame School - teach students that black people can be racially prejudice but that does not constitute racism. The lessons argue racism requires systemic and cultural power, which is wielded by white people"

Many are contrasting this to the George Floyd case in the US. I haven’t seen anything from Keir Starmer yet although I do remember him and AR taking the knee for George Floyd who was actually a convicted criminal.

Henry looked a fine young man. May he rest in peace.

Those blades for Sikh’s must be banned now. There is now no place for them in the country. We should all be treated equally and they seem to be the only people allowed to carry knives.

I am assuming the police did not realise initially how ill he was and acted on the information that were given in that moment when they first arrived. It must be so hard to make an accurate assessment in a split second. It does sound as though they did all they could for him first aid wise once they realised how critical he was.

I wouldn't want to be a policeman/woman having to make these instant decisions on the spot and effectively working blind.

What a sad situation for all concerned.

And what a travesty of the law that someone can carry an offensive weapon and evade the law on the grounds of faith.

Absolutely Magenta8
I’m sorry ( & I say this as someone who has a police officer in my extended family ) but the police are bloody useless sometimes. Don’t want to derail this thread but does anyone remember the 4 young gay men who died in London all within a few feet of each other ( 2 in the exact same spot! ) the police just put it down to drug overdoses. No further investigation, nothing.
One of the victims family members finally solved the case and unmasked a serial killer.

It should cause outrage in the same way the Nottingham murders caused outrage, because there are similarities. But unlike those, it should also cause outrage because of the Police actions and the fact they seem to have ignored the victim’s pleas until he collapsed in handcuffs.

It is not irrelevant that the murderer was legally carrying a bladed weapon in public. It is not racism to question this.

Have I got this right; the police handcuffed and manhandled a man who was bleeding profusely and had difficulty breathing?

Leaving aside all other considerations, of which, of course, there are many, this in itself is outrageous in my opinion.

It’s interesting how our Prime Minister and other politicians “took the knee for George Floyd yet nothing from Starmer on the Police’s dreadful handling of this case.

Kandinsky

ronib
I’m confused by your post.
It sounds like you’re victim blaming.
Can you explain please?

Kandinsky I don’t know why asking for further information is victim blaming? I don’t understand what happened and why the murderer felt threatened, if he was? I don’t understand why the murderer ‘s brother has not been charged too as he acted in a way to protect the murderer. Doesn’t inspire faith in the police.

I agree, no dangerous offensive weapons should be carried in public EVER, by anyone, for any reason.

I can fully understand the outrage at the police actions and the handling of the case.

I cannot understand using the death of this poor young man being used to promote yet more negative feelings g towards the entire cohort of people to whom this wicked Sikh man belongs!

It’s so typical, sadly, to use this murder as an excuse to criticise Sikhs.

The perpetrator was a vile man firstly who happened to be a Sikh.

MaizieD

I’m really not sure why this particular case of a random murder should be the cause of outrage? Does this by any chance have anything to do with the ethnicity of the murderer?

Not his ethnicity, but his faith .... Digwa, who had used a blade he said he carried because of his Sikh faith

And we should be outraged by this. Carrying offensive weapons and hiding behind faith as an excuse is deeply wrong in principle.

If I were to write what I really think about this I would be banned by HQ for foul language.

This legal loophole needs to be filled. There can be no excuse for carrying an offensive weapon and everyone of whatever faith should face the consequences if they do. I would be saying the same whichever religion was using this as an excuse.

There is outrage aplenty on the other murder thread …🤔

Perhaps if you again read the second paragraph of the OP?
Perhaps then you will understand Maizie's query?
If the outrage is because of the 'police handling', then shouldn't that aspect have been foregrounded?

Cossy

People are murdered on our streets every day, people who commit murder come diverse backgrounds, faiths, colour, nationality as do their victims.

Murder is a terrible act and it matters not one jot to me the faith or ethnicity of either the victim nor the perpetrator.

I agree. Which is why I questioned why this particular case should outrage us.

I did read the details given in the OP’s link.

The police handcuffed the victim, disregarding his pleas that he could not breathe because they chose to believe the false accusations of the murderer.
I remember the trouble fifty years ago when Sikhs insisted on wearing these daggers for religious reasons, and the immense amount of work and negotiation that was conducted between them and the police at the time. I thought the issue had been resolved. Carrying, wearing a sharpened bladed article is not acceptable and I thought was forbidden.

ronib
I’m confused by your post.
It sounds like you’re victim blaming.
Can you explain please?

MaizieD

I’m really not sure why this particular case of a random murder should be the cause of outrage? Does this by any chance have anything to do with the ethnicity of the murderer?

It has a heck of a lot to do with the police handling of the incident.
Handcuffing a dying man who has just been stabbed makes the officers in question IMO complicit in his murder.

And TBH what has it come to when accusations of “racial slur” carry more weight than an attack with a bladed weapon?

ronib

The police managed to add an extra layer of outrage in this particular case. The BBC article failed to explain why Henry Nowak was murdered.

Do the police know why this person was murdered?

People are murdered on our streets every day, people who commit murder come diverse backgrounds, faiths, colour, nationality as do their victims.

Murder is a terrible act and it matters not one jot to me the faith or ethnicity of either the victim nor the perpetrator.

MaizieD

I’m really not sure why this particular case of a random murder should be the cause of outrage? Does this by any chance have anything to do with the ethnicity of the murderer?

Perhaps Sago was concerned about the 'police handling of the case'? Or the necessity to allow knives to be carried with impunity? If it is a ceremonial piece could it not be a fake knife?

The police managed to add an extra layer of outrage in this particular case. The BBC article failed to explain why Henry Nowak was murdered.