He has done it! The toolmakers son has resigned!

But it wasn't a Labour stronghold in the local elections!

GrannyGravy13

CatsWhiskas

Sunshinegirls

I'm glad he's going and hope he takes Reeves and Hermer with him and most of the front bench the most despised PM in history.

But he's not the most despised PM in history!

According to the BBC Keir Starmer is the most unpopular PM, with Rishi Sunak in second place and Liz Truss in third 🤷‍♀️…

Oh yes? What is their source? I'm afraid I find that contradicts other sources.

I think I’m a little bit thick. What relevance is his father’s trade to his resignation? I tend to think the words are stronger when the arguments weak.

greyfur

The glee alone in the thread title is unpleasant.

Farage is a grifter, that much can be proven.

As ever, the unpleasantness says something about the people who write it.

Dontcallmelove

I think I’m a little bit thick. What relevance is his father’s trade to his resignation? I tend to think the words are stronger when the arguments weak.

You are not in the slightest bit thick. The reference to Starmer's trade is a way of mocking him. You're quite right that the most critical in this case don't have strong argiments.

CatsWhiskas

But it wasn't a Labour stronghold in the local elections!

Ah, there’s the rub. I wonder if this is a reflection of the country as a whole? Voting in Reform in droves for local elections, but thinking far more deeply at a GE?

sundowngirl

I am not a labour supporter and no fan of Starmer but I would much rather he had stayed as PM. I do not trust Andy Burnham over the way he has handled himself.

However considering calling Keir Starmer a tool maker's son as disparaging is a bit of a stretch, when posters are happy to be disparaging to Boris Johnson and Nigel Farrage. Just a couple within this threat:-

Johnson - "that ragged mop head Johnson"

Farrage - "he's a complete and utter grifter"

Cossy - "It’s the element of sheer spite towards another human being which I so vehemently object to, however, as time goes by it’s just what I’ve come to expect in our world of dog eat dog, “goadyness” and utter rudeness.

It won’t stop me, and others, calling it out"

One of the above quotes was from your own post - so do you only "call out" goadyness and utter rudeness to those politicians that you support??

There is a difference between referring to someone's deliberately 'tousled' hair, and to their parent's occupation. One is a reference to the appearance of someone who represented the UK to the rest of the world, and the other to a rather outdated hierarchy of status.

Kier Starmer, love him or hate him, is a very successful man in his own right. He got to the top of the legal profession, and to the top in politics, entirely independent of his father. He always looks the part - rather staid, corporate, but respectful of the people he is talking to and to the role he occupies. The parts of people's appearance that they can control (eg hair or clothing) say a lot about their attitude and sense of responsibility. There is not a lot to say about Starmer's appearance, precisely because he does show respect and responsibility. The fact that people commented on Johnson's appearance (which showed no such respect or restraint) does not give anyone a free pass to make snobbish remarks about Starmer's father - it's really clutching at straws to suggest it might.

The 'tit for tat' attitude about criticising politicians is perplexing. If someone lies, cheats, grifts, gives contracts to cronies, whatever - there is every reason to criticise them, regardless of their party. But criticising one person (regardless of party) does not mean that scrabbling to find something negative to say about members of a different party in some sort of 'revenge' is ok - why would it?

We should criticise actions, otherwise criticisms are just an expression of dislike (although if the occupation of someone's father is a basis on which to dislike someone it says more about the disliker than the disliked).

Farage is a grifter.

Losing a good prime minister is a crying shame.

If there was any safe alternative to democracy, I'd be all for it.

Cossy

CatsWhiskas

But it wasn't a Labour stronghold in the local elections!

Ah, there’s the rub. I wonder if this is a reflection of the country as a whole? Voting in Reform in droves for local elections, but thinking far more deeply at a GE?

Not so sure about that! I think the Burnham factor played a significant role. I saw some people being interviewed who took it for granted that Burnham would replace Starmer, so there was an anti-Starmer factor.

Given how spectacularly bad the Reform candidate was, I'm surprised so many people voted for him. I assume he was chosen because he's a local plumber and Reform wanted to emulate the Gorton by-election. I suspect if they'd managed to find somebody a bit more intelligent and less sexist, they might have won.

I don't think any trends can be spotted here.

eazybee

^And look at what we’ve achieved in just two years: an economy that is stronger, growing faster than our peers; wages rising faster than inflation in every single month since we came to power; investment secured; infrastructure being built; an end to austerity; with the fastest fall in NHS waiting lists for 17 years; the biggest improvement in rights for workers and renters in a generation; the biggest uplift in defence spending since the Cold War; small boat crossings falling; asylum hotels closing; protecting young people from social media; and half a million children being lifted out of poverty because of the choices that I made.^

And if you believe that you will believe anything.

Starmer has been forced out, in a very poor way, but he was ultimately incompetent, refused to listen to advice, (Mandelson) ,could/would not stand up to his MPs,(welfare Bill) , agreed unfair changes to renting and condition of employment (Rayner) and an ever increasing load of debt due to borrowing.(Reeves)
All the boasts about the grownups being in charge; Hollow.
The only victory: defeating Reform, in a Labour stronghold.
The result, a very dubious successor in the form of Burnham, and whoever is pulling his strings.

Sorry eazybee the things the LP have achieved are actual able to be proved and evidenced.

You are perfectly entitled to your views and opinions and to despise our PM.

But do not confuse your opinions with facts

CatsWhiskas

Going forward, it would be good if our future PM is judged on what he/she does rather than who his/her parents are or any personality trait (or clothes). It's almost as though petty criticisms are used to distract from the serious job of politics.

I think it's too late for that!

Gone are the days when most of our leading politicians were grey, uninspiring-looking, middle-aged men (mostly) - a look and persona we were accustomed to.

I don't quite know who started the cult of personality - maybe it was Theresa May with her flamboyant footwear and dance-routine, but anyway, we now seem to crave 'charisma' and 'personality'.

Oh yes - and we want 'change' - when do we want it? We want it now.

Good luck Burnham (or whoever) - you'll still be up against the same political and economic structure of your predecessor, which will be defended fiercely by the, largely, right-wing press and assorted very-wealthy-individuals who have a vested interest in making sure we maintain the status quo.

Btw your assertions eazybee around “unfair changes to renting and employment” are actually laughable!

Meanwhile the biggest spanner in the toolbox made a bit of a mess of a job this morning.
x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2068977460507558289?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
I wonder what sort of ‘thing’ he has in mind, an alien invasion perhaps - or a hailstorm of tools from the right?

Sunsginegirl, Grannygravy and others who think Starmer's the most despised PM in history.
As being "despised" is quire a recent thing I feel I think we are only looking at modern history...

If that's the case, surely Margaret Thatcher is the definitive answer.
No other PM generated—and continues to generate—such a visceral split in British society.
🤷‍♀️

eazybee

^And look at what we’ve achieved in just two years: an economy that is stronger, growing faster than our peers; wages rising faster than inflation in every single month since we came to power; investment secured; infrastructure being built; an end to austerity; with the fastest fall in NHS waiting lists for 17 years; the biggest improvement in rights for workers and renters in a generation; the biggest uplift in defence spending since the Cold War; small boat crossings falling; asylum hotels closing; protecting young people from social media; and half a million children being lifted out of poverty because of the choices that I made.^

And if you believe that you will believe anything.

Starmer has been forced out, in a very poor way, but he was ultimately incompetent, refused to listen to advice, (Mandelson) ,could/would not stand up to his MPs,(welfare Bill) , agreed unfair changes to renting and condition of employment (Rayner) and an ever increasing load of debt due to borrowing.(Reeves)
All the boasts about the grownups being in charge; Hollow.
The only victory: defeating Reform, in a Labour stronghold.
The result, a very dubious successor in the form of Burnham, and whoever is pulling his strings.

This reads more like a list of conclusions than an explanation. You're entitled to those views, but what's the evidence that Starmer was "forced out", that Burnham is "pulling strings", or that the welfare bill and employment reforms demonstrate incompetence rather than political choices you disagree with?

Very well said, Doodledog.

The bet thing Starmer did was to stand up to Trump and keep us out of the Iran war. He also passed the Renters Rights Bill and the Employment Rights Bills, among others. Its not his fault that the Assisted Dyin Bill got talked out of the Lords. Unfortunately he had an incompetent chancellor with a bunch of crazy policies and has taken the fall for some of her poor decisions. I will not be sorry to see the back of that pudding faced shrew.

Straight question easybee - you said it, it doesn't make sense, so please explain

Who is putting Burnhams strings ?

Attlee was one of the most influential UK Prime Ministers of the 20th century. It didn't stop Churchill saying of him "He is a modest man with much to be modest about."

eazybee
Starmer has been forced out
You could argue that - forced out as a result of the pile on by the media and his own MPs.
On the other hand he was allowed to speak in his defence rather than simply caused to disappear.

friendlygingercat

The bet thing Starmer did was to stand up to Trump and keep us out of the Iran war. He also passed the Renters Rights Bill and the Employment Rights Bills, among others. Its not his fault that the Assisted Dyin Bill got talked out of the Lords. Unfortunately he had an incompetent chancellor with a bunch of crazy policies and has taken the fall for some of her poor decisions. I will not be sorry to see the back of that pudding faced shrew.

Pudding faced shrew? I don't suppose you would care to post a photo of yourself, so that we can all think of some name for you.

friendlygingercat

The bet thing Starmer did was to stand up to Trump and keep us out of the Iran war. He also passed the Renters Rights Bill and the Employment Rights Bills, among others. Its not his fault that the Assisted Dyin Bill got talked out of the Lords. Unfortunately he had an incompetent chancellor with a bunch of crazy policies and has taken the fall for some of her poor decisions. I will not be sorry to see the back of that pudding faced shrew.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Nor will I, there was just something about her I really disliked and as it turned out, in my opinion, she was out of her depth big time.

friendlygingercat

The bet thing Starmer did was to stand up to Trump and keep us out of the Iran war. He also passed the Renters Rights Bill and the Employment Rights Bills, among others. Its not his fault that the Assisted Dyin Bill got talked out of the Lords. Unfortunately he had an incompetent chancellor with a bunch of crazy policies and has taken the fall for some of her poor decisions. I will not be sorry to see the back of that pudding faced shrew.

Pudding faced shrew 😀😀😀😀😀 Love it! She wouldn’t, though. I used to think she was on with Keir - couldn’t understand why he kept her really. Things might have been a whole lot different if he hadn’t.

NotSpaghetti

*Sunsginegirl*, Grannygravy and others who think Starmer's the most despised PM in history.
As being "despised" is quire a recent thing I feel I think we are only looking at modern history...

If that's the case, surely Margaret Thatcher is the definitive answer.
No other PM generated—and continues to generate—such a visceral split in British society.
🤷‍♀️

I do not think Keir Starmer is the most despised PM in history.

I posted that according to the BBC at lunchtime he is the most unpopular PM in history.

Big difference, especially as I did not endorse the BBC’s view on this thread or any other.

that pudding faced shrew

Lovely.