Should we be more open to a wealth tax?

Aveline

If we can't decide what counts as actual 'wealth' how can we know what the 'average' person is?!

I think we can’t do much about deciding an ‘average’ until everyone is subjected to the same tax regime.

If we can't decide what counts as actual 'wealth' how can we know what the 'average' person is?!

Whatever threshold is set for a wealth tax ( which I broadly support) I have no doubt that the threshold will creep down over time to catch more and more people. Governments are like that.

I think the average person is very much in favour of a wealth tax 🤷‍♀️

M0nica

I have. Just because he wrote it, I do not have to accept it. I can think of several books that were very influential in their time and were proved to be totally wrong.

I'd agree with you if he were an economic theorist. But I respect thorough pure research.

MaizieD

Aveline

Nevertheless, a lot of wealthy people do leave the country.

But they can't take their fixed assets (land and property) with them. Nor can they take their children's schools or their friendship groups...

I think it would be good to adopt the US system of taxing a US citizen's income regardless of what country in the world they live in or earn it. It would disadvantage the wealthy people moving to lower tax jurisdiction, of course...

Seems income, taxed regardless of where earned might raise more in taxes. What are negatives to this approach to income tax?

I have. Just because he wrote it, I do not have to accept it. I can think of several books that were very influential in their time and were proved to be totally wrong.

M0nica

Why is there this assumption that wealthy people live on dividends? many extremely wealthy people are earning £multi million salaries. Look at the salaries of Boards of directors of international and top national companies. On these they are paying income tax. Remember the top 10% of taxpayerspay around 60% of all income tax.

Stop avoiding figures that do not agree with what your want to believe.

I have read Thomas Pikety's book. Capital in the 21st Century. Very long, very intensively researched. It's all about Wealth and inequality.

Try it...

Barbadosbelle

Apple3pie

Facts ...

30% of ALL tax received in the U.K is paid by the top 1% of earners.

60% of ALL tax received in the U.K is paid by the top 10% of earners.

The more that leave the U.K. because of high taxation the more we'll have to pay to try and make up for the shortfall.

In the main these people worker harder and longer hours than most of us with a 12-hour day being 'an early night'; usually 6-days a week, often Sundays too.

Get some blue or hazel contact lens to cover those of the Green-eyed monster!

And ........ be careful what you wish for!!!
.

As MaizieD pointed out, you are conflating high earner tax payers with high wealth individuals paying very little. A top footballer will make, say, £50m a year in salary and sponsorship, and pay a fair amount of tax on it, becoming one of the highest tax contributors. On the other hand, some individuals/companies make billions but manage to pay comparatively little tax. They find loopholes in legislation and creative ways to handle their accounts. Their wealth keeps growing, their tax bill... - not so much.

Why is there this assumption that wealthy people live on dividends? many extremely wealthy people are earning £multi million salaries. Look at the salaries of Boards of directors of international and top national companies. On these they are paying income tax. Remember the top 10% of taxpayerspay around 60% of all income tax.

Stop avoiding figures that do not agree with what your want to believe.

My hypothetical £1000 perweeker doesn't have any income earned from a job.

Aveline

Why does the £1000 a week person only pay £25 in tax?

They pay £250 tax. 25%. of £1,000 They have £750 left.

Did you get the %age mixed up with the amount?

Yes, they pay less because dividends aren't taxed as highly and they have one or two tax avoidance schemes in operation. Something which someone on PAYE can't do.

Additionally, apart from the tax, if a person on a wage gets a pay rise it is likely to be based on the current rate of growth or inflation (and could be lower) whereas the wealthy person's investments are most likely to be giving an increase in income at a higher percentage than either of those. (They'd sack their financial manger if it didn't give such a good return)

Fallingstar

eazybee

No.
Cut the Welfare Bill.

Not sure that penalising those at the bottom of the pile whilst those at the top get richer would be the right way to go about it.

Many people love that idea, unfortunately.

Oh I wouldn’t worry, we all do that, helps makes everyone else feel superior😄😄 and give us lectures.

I'm stepping away from this thread now. I think I've said all I want to say and I've probably made a mathematical/financial fool of myself anyway .

Aveline

Why does the £1000 a week person only pay £25 in tax?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's because the £100 person earns that as a wage but the £1000 person has an income which isn't just made up from wages, it could also be interest on investments, inheritances etc.

Why does the £1000 a week person only pay £25 in tax?

Barbadosbelle says:

Facts ...

30% of ALL tax received in the U.K is paid by the top 1% of earners.

60% of ALL tax received in the U.K is paid by the top 10% of earners.

Well, for a start, we're not looking solely at earners. A great many wealthy people have so much money that they just have to employ someone to 'manage' it by investing it and they don't have to lift a finger to enjoy a massive income from it when the dividends and interest comes rolling in.

And those dividends and interest payments all have at the bottom of them money that a government/governments (not necessarily the government of their country) have spent into their domestic economy to provide services for its citizens and which he nature of the particular way the economy is run has directed the flow of money upwards to them.

Now look at it differently. Two individuals, one earns £100 per week, the other has income (not necessarily 'earned') of £1,000 per week.

The £100 per week person pays total tax (Income tax, VAT and some sundry 'fees') of 35%, which leaves them £65 a week to live on. This is all spent on basic necessities.

The person with £1,000 per week pays only 25% of this in tax, leaving them with £750 to live on. Out of this they can save a portion because they can't actually spend it all. The portion they save brings them in more money over time in the form of interest or dividends.

Why should the richer person have a greater percentage of their income left after taxation?

(Obviously the figures I've used are completely made up, but they illustrate reality)

.

Had a decision change. July. August and the beginning of September - the U.K.

Oh, dear. There just aren't enough months in the year for us wealthy globetrotters!!!
.

MOnica

Good for them. Wish I could afford to do the same ....

# December to April - Barbados (spiritual home!)

# May, June - Beaulieu-sur-Mer

# July, August, - Chania

# September, October - Port d'Andratx

# November - Cunard Caribbean cruise in Princess Grill grade.

Luxury 3/4-bedroom 3,000+ sqft apartments with 24-hour concierge in each of the five locations. Lock up and go. Clothes toiletries etc all kept on site so no luggage required.

I've seen the properties I want. All to go in an off-shore Family Trust plus £Capital for my two sons and their families and their ongoing descendents. To also cover Education and Health fees.

Ummm. Now I'd better just scoot off and buy a ticket for tomorrow's EuroLottery £33m rollover - and work out the distribution of the 15% forming the Family Charity (all local, no religious, educational or national Charitues!)

It could be me!!!
.

Give me the wealth and I’ll consider the tax.
But it seems to me those who are most heavily taxed are the «just getting by without asking for any help»

I don't necessarily think people are muddled... that's a little bit condescending Whitewavemark. People have different views on what makes the world go round.

A lot of people seem muddled about the reason the wealthy should pay tax.

Nothing to do with envy, hard work etc.,

Everything to do with equity and fairness before the law.

Life isn't fair. It would be naïve to think it is or will be. Some are able to accrue wealth through inheritance or sheer hard work. Some are opportunistic, often if they've been high profile, like Tony Blair, they are in demand and capitalise on their past glory. That's life! Should everyone be the same? Most of us would likely grab at an opportunity to make money. It's very easy to criticise others success and blame the state of the country on a small minority.

Apple3pie

Facts ...

30% of ALL tax received in the U.K is paid by the top 1% of earners.

60% of ALL tax received in the U.K is paid by the top 10% of earners.

The more that leave the U.K. because of high taxation the more we'll have to pay to try and make up for the shortfall.

In the main these people worker harder and longer hours than most of us with a 12-hour day being 'an early night'; usually 6-days a week, often Sundays too.

Get some blue or hazel contact lens to cover those of the Green-eyed monster!

And ........ be careful what you wish for!!!
.