Angela Rayner is a scrounger, grifter and shameless hypocrite.

Galaxy

Nope I wouldn't have done that. It is the right thing to do.

I wouldn't have done that either. See my earlier post 07.18.

This notion that Rayner is under-qualified.

I suspect there is a fundamental misunderstanding of how Government and Ministries function. Each department has a Cabinet Minister. Under them work other Ministers and Parliamentary Under Secretaries of State (PUSS). Working with them are civil servants.

The Institute of Government chart is obviously out of date but shows the organisation. Rayner’s predecessor, Steve Reed was then cabinet minister for the MHCLG but had two ministers and three PUSS working with him.

(Reed’s background worked in educational publishing before he became involved in politics.)

The cabinet minister decides on strategy. One doesn’t need academic qualifications to have a vision and a plan for what one wants to achieve. Because Rayner has been poor and knows what it’s like to struggle she will understand more than most how housing inequality is driving so much that is wrong in today’s society.

I agree that government isn’t a business but there is a similar hierarchy. Some of the most successful businesses were started by people with a vision but no academic background in the subject.

Alan Sugar left school at 16. At 21, he started selling radio aerials for cars and other electrical goods out of a van.

James Dyson started out studying furniture and interior design before switching to engineering. His first invention was a wheelbarrow with a ball instead of a wheel.

Richard Branson left school at 16 and is dyslexic. Age 20 he started a mail order record business that became Virgin record stores.

Many “top” CEOs have no direct experience of the business they join. As discussed on another thread (about CEO pay), Mark Thurston former head of HS2 is now CEO of Anglian Water. He is an electrical engineer who started out as an apprentice with London Transport.

Rayner is hardly a greenhorn. She’s been an MP for eleven years and has served as shadow minister in various roles. Read her resignation letter to see what she achieved before she was forced to resign. It makes sense to reinstate her to a role she feels passionate about.

Galaxy

It is perfectly reasonable to discuss the severance pay.
I think AR did some impressive work in her previous role, i also think she should have returned the severance pay.

I don’t think anybody is suggesting that the severance pay shouldn’t be discussed though, just that there should be as much respect accorded to AR as to other politicians, instead of the constant demeaning of everything about her.

Many people would probably cheat on their taxes if they thought they could get away with it.

If you make cash in hand via a side hustle you know where its going when you spend it on household bills. Back into the community to support jobs for others.

We are all sucking off the tax man to pay for vanity projects, asylum seekers, MOD procurement fiddles and bl***y Ukraine.

The point remains,
she was within the LAW.

But let's all listen to Nadine Dorries

I had no idea nadine dorres had even commented until I opened this thread, I have been discussing the severance pay since it made the news.

So uninterested I cant spell her name correctly

'Scrounger, grifter, shameless hypocrite'
I'd love to read her judgement on Farage.

DaisyAnneReturns

I never actually knew about what led to GSM's being banned Doodledog. Thank you for the explanation.

My phone doesn’t allow nested quotes, but I want to acknowledge MT’s point that mine is an opinion rather than a fact, although it is an opinion based on being on that awful thread. I’m not sure MT was around then (under that name, at any rate) which makes it difficult to know whether or not she contributed, or can possibly know about the atmosphere at the time of that thread.

My contributions are there for all to see, as are GSM’s, so people can judge (or try to understand, depending on personality) based on the evidence, and agree or disagree with my POV, either of which is fine by me.

There is a view that GSM’s ban was based on a thread about curling tongs and Downton Abbey, but there are so many deleted posts there that it’s impossible to know what happened unless you read it at the time. I didn’t, as I took a break after the trouser suit thread, so find it baffling.

Regardless - my view (which is all it is) is that people get banned for what can seem like arbitrary reasons. Sometimes the banned have a vociferous group of supporters, and sometimes they don’t. The reasons for the bannings don’t change depending on whether campaigns for reinstatement are set up or not, and it would be very wrong (IMO) if HQ acted on those campaigns.

People whose posts I liked have vanished without an outcry, and (to me) that’s worse, and presumably much more hurtful for them than having continued ‘we don’t understand’ posts, and in the case of GSM, ‘oh, but now I don’t have free legal advice’ ones.

I repeat- I don’t think GSM should have been banned, although I was shocked by her behaviour at the time of the GE. If there were a plebiscite I would vote for her reinstatement. I would do the same for most (all but one, really) of those I know to have been banned, because I am not a precious flower who can’t read opinions I don’t share.

But. My vote for any (except one 😀) to return would depend on the amnesty being extended to people such as Maddie, growstuff and others who I didn’t even know had been banned until I noticed they hadn’t posted for ages and asked.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Casdon

Galaxy

It is perfectly reasonable to discuss the severance pay.
I think AR did some impressive work in her previous role, i also think she should have returned the severance pay.

I don’t think anybody is suggesting that the severance pay shouldn’t be discussed though, just that there should be as much respect accorded to AR as to other politicians, instead of the constant demeaning of everything about her.

Do you really think that all other politicians are accorded respect?
I have no time for him but Nigel Farage has consistently been demeaned on this forum, and Boris as well.
Does it only matter if politicians you like are demeaned?
We all have the right to say what we think about politicians.

Nigel Farage is being investigated by the police. He has demeaned himself.
Boris Johnson was also in serious trouble for allowing parties during lockdown apart from his links to Russia.
Angela Rayner has been cleared of any wrong doing.

Agreed, oreo.

I am never sure whether Galaxy wants to tell us we are all biased (unlike her??), or is trying to open a conversation in the manner of a facilitator. Neither approach is (IMO) appropriate to an open discussion board to which we all come as equals.

And yes , 'we all have a right to say what we think about politicians'
within the GN rules, of course.

How lovely doodledog.
It is neither. It is a response to the assumptions and tellings off about why people might discuss this subject.

For example waving libel laws around is hardly likely to facilitate discussion is it. It is just a form of control.

AGAA4

Nigel Farage is being investigated by the police. He has demeaned himself.
Boris Johnson was also in serious trouble for allowing parties during lockdown apart from his links to Russia.
Angela Rayner has been cleared of any wrong doing.

Well said, AGAA4

I didn't read the green trouser suit thread and I won't go looking for it. Sounds like a classic school bullying type of thread to me.

Oreo

Casdon

Galaxy

It is perfectly reasonable to discuss the severance pay.
I think AR did some impressive work in her previous role, i also think she should have returned the severance pay.

I don’t think anybody is suggesting that the severance pay shouldn’t be discussed though, just that there should be as much respect accorded to AR as to other politicians, instead of the constant demeaning of everything about her.

Do you really think that all other politicians are accorded respect?
I have no time for him but Nigel Farage has consistently been demeaned on this forum, and Boris as well.
Does it only matter if politicians you like are demeaned?
We all have the right to say what we think about politicians.

The other politicians who were removed from one administration but returned to another, including after sackings, did not have their right to severance pay questioned though. It is about even handedness. Angela Rayner attracts vicious, personal comments which are unwarranted.

It is partly because AR drew attention to that though, so it was more than likely going to come back to haunt her

Casdon. Indeed. Every minister and PUSS who has served for more than six months in Starmer’s government will be entitled to severance pay on a scale according to position.

Ministers reappointed to another paid ministerial post within three months will be expected to forgo their salary until the full three-month period has elapsed, avoiding simultaneous receipt of salary and severance.

If Burnham decides to bring someone back after three months, will we see similar threads calling them scroungers, grifters and shameless hypocrites if they don't repay severance pay to which they were legally entitled?

Tax and NIC is charged on severance pay, halving or more what is received depending on the recipient’s effective marginal rate - which for ministers will be 60%. That £16,876 for a Cabinet Minister ends up as £6,750 in pocket.

What an utterly horrible thread
I m saying no more but I think it’s nasty and posted to poke the sleeping bear

BlueBelle

What an utterly horrible thread
I m saying no more but I think it’s nasty and posted to poke the sleeping bear

I agree.
Really horrid to keep having a go at Angela Rayner, and agree with a post up thread that it smacks of bullying.
Let’s treat her like any other Minister and judge her on what she does whilst in office, and it will take some time before we get any indication of that.
Was bad enough that some were talking about what Burnham’s wife was wearing etc.
For goodness sake leave the women alone.

Including nadine dorries presumably.