Burnham to tell schools in England to adapt teaching to local business needs- what do you think?

In theory this is a good idea, but I think it will be difficult to implement in practice.

Who will teach skills such as bricklaying, plumbing, etc? Teachers don't have the skills, and professionals don't have the necessary teaching skills, even if some of them were willing to take time off their businesses to do it.

Three sons and three brothers. My three brothers were joiner painter decorator and gas fitter. Three sons own business owner, pensions manager ,sales manager for well known sofa firm. My three brothers left school all did apprenticeships and lived and earned well. I think what ever the path we choose as long as we’re happy and fulfilled we all should do well.

I still think we should never have got rid of the old polytechnics

There’s education and then there’s training. I remember in years gone by when I did a B.Ed they used to stress that education was much wider and was what we should be aiming for as teachers. However.

I think you are wrong David

Looking at Clacton - 2.4% of residents hold a non-UK passport - significantly lower than the national average across England (9.9%).

The UK national average for residents born outside the UK is approximately 16%. Clacton is 5%
The migrant population (and by extension, the migrant workforce) remains small in most rural areas compared to the "norm".

International migration is concentrated in major metropolitan areas, university cities, and manufacturing hubs.
... in fact, places just like Manchester!

Not just local business needs.

Mechanization and automation have reduced the number of employees that businesses need with AI this is going to reduce jobs further.
Local social needs, care, environment, security will provide many more jobs in future, at present many of those services are provided by agencies or contractors that recruit migrant workers that has to stop.

Surely the idea of a sort of technical baccalaureate isn't new.

Doing it through a regional mayor with localised business is, I think, the novelty here...

Not sure it can work in Clacton and Skegness (for example) because in Manchester the trials are linked in with Manchester's local economy - technology, construction, health, and green energy.

I expect it stands a better chance anywhere where there is growing/successful economic activity in the first place.

We could save a lot of time and money ( and hot air 😉) if we followed the Dutch system.

onderwijsloket.com/kennisbank/artikelen/how-is-the-dutch-education-system-structured

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I can only answer my own question.
Perhaps this cohort of apprentices don’t get paid? 🤷‍♀️

Are they still ‘in school’?
Even so …. I don’t get it.

14 to 16 year old, so yes, still in school. FE Colleges start at 16.

Thanks for the link Mamie. There is no rule that the government can only announce plans that won't have challenges! I like this post on that first page of your post:

SadiraOfTyr · Yesterday 11:24

"I presume these will be locally targeted and rolled out progressively along with major employers eg aerospace in Bristol, auto industry in Sunderland and West Midlands, pharma in Cambridge, offshore wind in Hull etc. Basically, work experience leading to an apprenticeship along with technical qualifications. This is the model used in Germany and seems to work well".

More or less mirrors some posts on this thread yesterday. Burham announced his Manchester plans for this in Greater Manchester under 2 years ago- and detail of progress achieved to date, number of employer placements secured etc posted on this thread yesterday.

Good to know there is some support for the plans by the Mumsnet posters too.

Just another thought . These schemes and programmes would possibly have to be introduced to a whole year group . ~This could mean 200 + pupils. We ran an industry week for year 10 at the school where I taught . Pupils signed up for talks or visits. Staff were involved to help with organising the talks. ~You would not leave a group with an unqualified teacher.There is a need for supervision.

There is an interesting thread on Mumsnet from people who would be involved in the delivery. There are posts from people saying there are already problems with getting appropriate experience and apprenticeships for T levels, especially in areas where there is a lack of local industry or business opportunities and low take-up.
It is a good idea, but the talk of it being in place by 2028 is not sensible.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5559781-andy-to-introduce-new-technical-pathways-for-gcses-in-2028

Is it all right to say that guidance could be done by non teachers ? this This is assuming that people in industry have the time and the money to take part, and that that the staff in charge are given enough time off timetable to visit local business , to interest those in the local businesses so that they want to be a part. It assumes that staff have the necessary connections with relevant people in the business world and can build up a bank of such people. It will take time.

teachers have first hand knowledge of each child's aptitudes and potential and would hopefully act in the child's best interests
That for me would be of great importance.

Teachers or teaching assistants who speak with other teachers children engages with in school- who have protected time for periodic discussions with pupils to set our career pathways on offer and engage with the children to steer them accordingly and answer questions?

The children already make choices on GCSE subjects for example, ahead, so adding more vocational career pathway discussions and choices builds on a system already in place?

Teachers are well positioned and have the necessary teaching skills to guide children on the various available career pathways that may form part of a new curriculum? Plus teachers have first hand knowledge of each child's aptitudes and potential and would hopefully act in the child's best interests?

Plus teachers often periodically meet the children's parents at parent's evening so are well positioned to meet and discuss career pathway ideas in partnership and collaboration with the parent's?

By the right teachers I mean those with the necessary skills and experience. I guess they don't need to be proper teachers in order to impart knowledge and offer guidance, though in a group situation it would be beneficial.

My feeling is that youngsters aged 14 - 16 will see any older person giving them instructions as a teacher of sorts anyway.

Are teachers the right people to do this anyway?

I would prefer they used their energies to teach.

Guiding the young on career pathways, could be done by others, perhaps associated to industry, local businesses etc.

Likewise with MFL in primary schools. As one governor said, “If we don’t have anyone qualified, they must just go to night school and pick it up!”
And that's not teaching it correctly from the start then. It's not just a case of le chat, le chien, it's having a far greater understanding of how a foreign language works.

I agree that the right teachers for the task are needed from the outset.

I’m hopeful that the necessary staff with qualifications to teach the proposed areas will be employed, not just adding another category that existing teachers have to teach.

I remember when computing first arrived on the primary curriculum. If you were lucky
1. you already had a computer at home.
2. You were the teacher who got to do INSET telling you what to teach, which you were then expected to disseminate to other less fortunate staff.
OFSTED assessed you on your lessons!
Likewise with MFL in primary schools. As one governor said, “If we don’t have anyone qualified, they must just go to night school and pick it up!”

The young do need support though.

The way it works in Manchester as far as I understand is that the young are provided with clear pathways to their chosen careers to follow. Work experience will be commonplace.

My daughter benefited enormously from work experience (she is 55 now). She spent time at Smith Klein - once she got her A levels they contacted her and offered her a job, but also paid for her to get her degree and subsequent PhD.

My son worked with various Rangers and environment and eventually graduated (via a circuitous route geology degree) as an environmental scientist.

Yes, both graduates, but they could easily have remained in the different industries without degrees.

A spanner in the works might be the ever changing face of industry and commerce, where local businesses close and new ones open, and where AI will play a part of course.

Youngsters need to be prepared to get on their bikes and move to where the work is, something that mankind has always done.

My two grandsons have taken very different paths.

One took the graduate route and now works as a computer engineer and software systems for the MOD through his company’s contract.

The other grandson works for the same company and is in the first year of a 3 year (it maybe longer) apprenticeship.

Both extremely happy in their choices.

I've always kept an interested eye on education promises and intentions. I am definitely demonstrating a will for these new proposals to succeed.

However, (and this is my main reason for criticising KS and Rachel Reeves), as a payer of an additional 20% VAT on school fees x 2, it was promised to families by KS that the extra revenue would go directly to state school improvements, with an additional 6,500 teachers. There's actually now fewer teachers than before, so we must believe we were misled. Promise broken.

I can try to put that disappointment behind me because I feel a new, more optimistic, person might now be in charge and might now deliver what the country needs, but it's also quite natural to feel some apprehension.

It's good to see the posts demonstrating a will for AB's government to succeed with these complex, long term plans. If thats a sign that some of the electorate at least ( and may grow 🤞) is willing to support long term goals that Britain badly needs. It won't be easy but I hope the government does succeed.

Your three men Iam64 have done well- and you are surrounded by readily available practical expertise - I am jealous 😊