49,000 migrants invade Spanish enclave in 24 hours

Mamie

The BBC website reports that the message "Spain is Open" appeared online and thousands of Moroccans swam or scrambled to Ceuta. Once there, they found they had no right to go to mainland Spain, so went home again. It is an interesting report looking at the possible authors of the scam.

Ah.

I had been wondering what made them go en masse.
[apart from the obvious, 500,000 previous people got officially recognised].

Mamie

Oreo

People laughed at the ‘reds under the bed’ stuff years ago and will equally laugh in the future about the fearful gasping about the Far Right in the UK.

We can certainly laugh at the ridiculous "liberal woke" epithet, which nobody who uses it seems able to define.

Do you know anyone who uses it? I certainly don’t.

Only to a deluded few fancythat

Oreo

People laughed at the ‘reds under the bed’ stuff years ago and will equally laugh in the future about the fearful gasping about the Far Right in the UK.

We can certainly laugh at the ridiculous "liberal woke" epithet, which nobody who uses it seems able to define.

Giorgia Meloni is widely classified as a far-right politician. She leads the national-conservative party Brothers of Italy (Fratelli d'Italia), which has neo-fascist roots and advocates for strict immigration policies, traditional family values, and national sovereignty.

Am I understanding this correctly?

Strict immigration, tradional family values and national sovereignty, now means far right to people??

The BBC website reports that the message "Spain is Open" appeared online and thousands of Moroccans swam or scrambled to Ceuta. Once there, they found they had no right to go to mainland Spain, so went home again. It is an interesting report looking at the possible authors of the scam.

People laughed at the ‘reds under the bed’ stuff years ago and will equally laugh in the future about the fearful gasping about the Far Right in the UK.

MaizieD

Oreo

Oh it’s the common answer to everything nowadays, whatever happens or doesn’t happen is the fault of the shadowy far right.
The opposite of the reds under the beds of yesteryear.

The 'far right' is far from 'shadowy'. We can see it in its full glory in the US. Hungary has just escaped its clutches... It has adherents in most European countries and undoubtably further afield.

Our parents and grandparents seem to have managed to recognise it for what it is. It's quite strange that their offspring want to shut their eyes to it...

It’s shadowy on here in the minds of many it usurps everything.
Nobody is ‘shutting their eyes to it’ but to constantly bring it into every discussion from migrants doing a mass flash mob excursion into a EU country to which foods do you prefer kind of thread is silly and boring.

I’d disagree regarding Georgia Meloni TerriBull

‘Giorgia Meloni is widely classified as a far-right politician. She leads the national-conservative party Brothers of Italy (Fratelli d'Italia), which has neo-fascist roots and advocates for strict immigration policies, traditional family values, and national sovereignty.

While her political roots lie in post-fascist movements, analysts describe her governance since taking office in 2022 as a blend of right-wing populism and more pragmatic conservatism, particularly in her strong support for the EU, NATO, and Ukraine.’
Times

The style of government in Italy is probably not as far right as Meloni personally would like however, given there is a three party coalition, it reflects the compromise on policies that they can all agree on.

TerriBull

I think society is far more nuanced these days. How many of us would view the traditional nuclear family as the definitive one. Although, not ideal for everyone, it's still a place where many children thrive, not all. I'm glad, as a mother who raised boys, one ran rings round me in his teens, that I had their father who was and still is a positive and important influence in their lives. I question how good a job I'd have done, certainly with my most challenging child as a lone mother, although they tell me I was a good mum, but that's now, not always then when I was grappling with a gobby teen. Although having said that I do know several single mothers who were brilliant. We hear so much about the lack of male role models for boys, either in the home or at school and how boys seek those out in areas of influence that haven't been so great and at times positively ruinous and damaging. There's a lot of worry about boys development, so maybe, we, as a society, should be less dismissive about the role of the father.

Possibly, she is perceived as far right, personally, I don't see Georgia Meloni lined up along side say for example, Franco or the Generals from the numerous military juntas of Latin America throughout their troubled history, who ruled their people with an iron fist and committed many human rights abuses. She's pretty conservative on many issues, but I also think she's a woman who is trying to do the best for the people of Italy I see her as more pragmatic than some leaders of today. Far right, hard left, intransigent theocracies are easily defined, absolute power, no dissenting opposition, control over the media, and a police state. To step out of line you do so at your peril, torture, imprisonment, disappearance . In my opinion there is a distinction between conservative values and, I don't agree with some of them such as anti abortion, I also believe in religion being kept out of politics and the state should be secular. It does appear increasingly to express an opinion about border controls, unfettered immigration, to put one's head above the parapet and to state that there are too many worrying aspects surrounding criminal activities of undocumented male migrants from cultures that do not accept women as their equals,or if they stray outside the home on their own somehow they're asking to be sexually assaulted, or to say that you don't acknowledge that a man wearing a dress automatically confers on him the right to be recognised as a woman and access women only spaces, is to suggest that you're somehow morphing into a fully fledged member of the Third Reich.

👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Sorry, my son was 9 when his father died, should prof read!

Galaxy

But the risks for those children with one parent in terms of all sorts of things are higher. This doesn't mean we marginalise those families but not acknowledging it hepls no one. This has drifted from the original thread but I think that applies to farages corruption as well

My son died when his father was 9, so I know there are risks, but also that there is a way through it, provided people are equipped with the skills, and the support from family and friends, and agencies, where needed, which is crucial.

Galaxy

But the risks for those children with one parent in terms of all sorts of things are higher. This doesn't mean we marginalise those families but not acknowledging it hepls no one. This has drifted from the original thread but I think that applies to farages corruption as well

I, for one, am happy that it has drifted from the original thread, but not that your interjection has drifted from discussion of 'far right'. I think there is too much denial of the fact that the far right exists. Picking on one aspect of it to support it looks like minimising the cumulative effect of all the characteristics. Especially when done by someone who maintains that the term 'far right' has become meaningless.

I think society is far more nuanced these days. How many of us would view the traditional nuclear family as the definitive one. Although, not ideal for everyone, it's still a place where many children thrive, not all. I'm glad, as a mother who raised boys, one ran rings round me in his teens, that I had their father who was and still is a positive and important influence in their lives. I question how good a job I'd have done, certainly with my most challenging child as a lone mother, although they tell me I was a good mum, but that's now, not always then when I was grappling with a gobby teen. Although having said that I do know several single mothers who were brilliant. We hear so much about the lack of male role models for boys, either in the home or at school and how boys seek those out in areas of influence that haven't been so great and at times positively ruinous and damaging. There's a lot of worry about boys development, so maybe, we, as a society, should be less dismissive about the role of the father.

Possibly, she is perceived as far right, personally, I don't see Georgia Meloni lined up along side say for example, Franco or the Generals from the numerous military juntas of Latin America throughout their troubled history, who ruled their people with an iron fist and committed many human rights abuses. She's pretty conservative on many issues, but I also think she's a woman who is trying to do the best for the people of Italy I see her as more pragmatic than some leaders of today. Far right, hard left, intransigent theocracies are easily defined, absolute power, no dissenting opposition, control over the media, and a police state. To step out of line you do so at your peril, torture, imprisonment, disappearance . In my opinion there is a distinction between conservative values and, I don't agree with some of them such as anti abortion, I also believe in religion being kept out of politics and the state should be secular. It does appear increasingly to express an opinion about border controls, unfettered immigration, to put one's head above the parapet and to state that there are too many worrying aspects surrounding criminal activities of undocumented male migrants from cultures that do not accept women as their equals,or if they stray outside the home on their own somehow they're asking to be sexually assaulted, or to say that you don't acknowledge that a man wearing a dress automatically confers on him the right to be recognised as a woman and access women only spaces, is to suggest that you're somehow morphing into a fully fledged member of the Third Reich.

But the risks for those children with one parent in terms of all sorts of things are higher. This doesn't mean we marginalise those families but not acknowledging it hepls no one. This has drifted from the original thread but I think that applies to farages corruption as well

Galaxy

It isn't about exclusion is it, it is about what works best for children. And if we discussed that more ( why it looks like not having a father figure seems on the whole to be a disaster for young men for example) it might be if more use to marginalised groups.

Good parenting, with boundaries, is what is important, and that includes having male and female role models in every child’s life. There are however many people who will never make good parents, unfortunately, and they come from all walks of life, income groups and family backgrounds.

Galaxy

It isn't about exclusion is it, it is about what works best for children. And if we discussed that more ( why it looks like not having a father figure seems on the whole to be a disaster for young men for example) it might be if more use to marginalised groups.

But that doesn't actually really belong to a discussion about the 'far right'. and I think you know that really.

Oreo

Oh it’s the common answer to everything nowadays, whatever happens or doesn’t happen is the fault of the shadowy far right.
The opposite of the reds under the beds of yesteryear.

The 'far right' is far from 'shadowy'. We can see it in its full glory in the US. Hungary has just escaped its clutches... It has adherents in most European countries and undoubtably further afield.

Our parents and grandparents seem to have managed to recognise it for what it is. It's quite strange that their offspring want to shut their eyes to it...

It isn't about exclusion is it, it is about what works best for children. And if we discussed that more ( why it looks like not having a father figure seems on the whole to be a disaster for young men for example) it might be if more use to marginalised groups.

Sunshinegirls

As everyone could have guessed, many of the 50 000 illegal migrants who crossed into Ceuta and Melilla yesterday spent the night by breaking into homes, looting stores and clashing with the Spanish police (copied from a post on X)

There's a video of them rampaging through the town but I don't know how to post it.

Let's call it what it is an invasion.

That’s not at all what locals were saying to Sky and BBC reporters. They said they weren’t causing any trouble.

Seriously, don’t take your news from X.

Am sure you and multiple others may have said sometime too,
And indeed they do wander at times and most often I have noticed down the Far Right Lane.

Oreo

This thread is in peril of going down multiple rabbit holes, including Binface, Clacton, Farage the ever popular Far Right and now family structure.

Threads wander as I’m sure you’ve probably said sometime. And we must all beware of thread policing mustn't we? Imo it’s become much more interesting

This thread is in peril of going down multiple rabbit holes, including Binface, Clacton, Farage the ever popular Far Right and now family structure.

Oh it’s the common answer to everything nowadays, whatever happens or doesn’t happen is the fault of the shadowy far right.
The opposite of the reds under the beds of yesteryear.

I think some elements of any belief system will chime if they make sense to us, based on our own experience. That doesn’t mean you buy in to a far right belief system as a whole?

If each of us unpicked the elements of the traditional family values definition above that we subscribe to, there would probably be some elements the majority of people in the UK would agree with, and some that the majority don’t.