Who's Controlling The Straits of Hormuz?

Oreo

We’re doing very well here in the UK but the countries such as China and India and the US, which have massive populations and massive emissions are the ones that really need to start going green.That’s what will really make a difference.

No country can rest on its laurels, including the UK- particularly as the uK has a higher population compared than the 179 countries in the world- only 21 countries above us with a larger population.

Worldometers.info lists the populations of all the countries in the world, in descending order. UK is listed at 22 with a population of 69,931,528. The only EU country with a higher population than the UK is Germany at 19 with a population of 83,644,258 at 19. All other European countries have a smaller population than the UK.

Denmark is a tenth the size of the UK population - with a population of 6,023,520, but performs better on Climate Action than the UK.

So the UK alongside China, US and Canada and the other 17 top populated countries in the world need to do our bit going green. That will really make a difference.

Ranked progress against Climate action goals as set out in Paris agreement is available on climate action.org tracker ( just enter chosen country in 'find your country' section) today tlists the UK progress in the insufficient zone.

winterwhite

Going back to the OP, Iran may have had severe prevarication but it was not within its rights in closing an international waterway. Compare the straits of Hormuz to the straits of Dover (similar in width at their narrowest points I understand). Just suppose that in a spat with France we were to declare it was ours and cut off all shipping.The whole world would say Oh no it isn’t.

I agree that Trump should have anticipated this as a likely retaliatory move, but he isn’t the sharpest forward thinker and we don’t know which or how many advisers he consulted.

If Reform uK wins a GE and implements Operation Fortress- 100% certain tReform plans to instigate a channel Spat with France.

This is because the UK does not have the legal right to breach France's sovereignty by pushing back irregular immigrants who have left France or Belgium or anywhere else on small boats onto French territory.

Yes lets just suppose a spat with France if there are disagreements rearing the English Channel.

We in the UK have three years to think through the implications of Reform UK's plan Operation Fortress. That is in context of the The Channel and maritime law, international laws for asylum seekers and French Sovereignty. The UK is currently not at war with France. Reform has predicted said spat with France regarding its Operation Fortress Plans three years ahead!

Would the UK be in the wrong in that situation? What might be the adverse outcomes for the UK population in such a scenario? What might the world stage be thinking about the UK if its government implements Operation Fortress, breaches French sovereignty and has such an almighty spat?

Put simply the UK is not within its rights to dump irregular migrants on French territory. It will be the UK intimating and provoking a spat with France and the EU.

French territory is not UK territory. The whole world will tell Reform UK Oh no it isn’t

OK, just imagine the situation the other way round.

France, fed up with dumped irregular migrants, decides to dump them back

If we argue we can do this to France, then they can equally argue they could do it back.

And not just them, the whole of the EU.

You would also ? be breaking NATO guidelines?

You want to start a war?

It's an absolutely crazy proposal. Sorry to put it in such string terms,, but do we actually want to de facto declare war on France?

Reform are off their rockers and cruel in kidding those who know less "Oh it will be OK"

And if we over they load people onto planes and dump somewhere...then they....

No FGoodnessS, get your thinking caps on!

edit "strong terms"

LemonJam The UK isn’t resting on its laurels from all I have read we are doing very well on green issues but it can’t be done overnight (Net Zero) and if rushed our economy will crash.Our growth isn’t great as it is and with so much to put right here and spend money on including defence things will have to slow down.What Ed Miliband sees as wonderful is fine on paper but if he was allowed to have full go ahead it would be a disaster for all of us except the wealthy.

Yes our population is growing in worrying numbers, all down to immigration and illegal immigration the numbers go up every day.
So many working in the black economy for cash, paying nothing to the government and sending most of their pay home. It’s a disaster darling!

Wyllow3

OK, just imagine the situation the other way round.

France, fed up with dumped irregular migrants, decides to dump them back

If we argue we can do this to France, then they can equally argue they could do it back.

And not just them, the whole of the EU.

You would also ? be breaking NATO guidelines?

You want to start a war?

It's an absolutely crazy proposal. Sorry to put it in such string terms,, but do we actually want to de facto declare war on France?

Reform are off their rockers and cruel in kidding those who know less "Oh it will be OK"

And if we over they load people onto planes and dump somewhere...then they....

No FGoodnessS, get your thinking caps on!

I agree Wyllow3- it's a crazy idea. The French government gave a quick response yesterday and its a no form them?

RN also gave their response- its a no from them.

The rest of the world would give their quick response also if it were ever to come to pass- which of course it won't. Bonkers.

This hypothesis about Reform and migrants is nothing to do with the Channel as such.

I don't think even the President of the USA can go to war without some discussion with the Heads of the Armed Forces.

it's more likely a case of him not taking any warnings seriously, & them (like all Armed Forces) keen to prove their worth & get extra funds, so having issued the warnings & being told to go ahead anyway ...off they go.

Isn't Hegseth in charge of the USA armed forces?

winterwhite

This hypothesis about Reform and migrants is nothing to do with the Channel as such.

Reform UK's Operation Fortress plan may be a hypothesis I guess as it's definitely not a workable plan.

Not sure what waters Reform plans for the Royal Navy to use in Operation Fortress if not the English Channel? Isn't that the only way via water from the UK to French sovereign land?

Simple point. We do not have a big enough navy to do what Reform wants it to do. Neither in ships nor crew.

Maremia

And in the real world, the Strait of Hormuz was open, before Netanyahu lured Trump into an illegal war.

You've got it.

" Operation Fortress" God, it's embarassing.
There is no drawbridge to pull up.

It’s embarrassing that Reform has any support, yes I’m liberal and recognise people have different views and equality in voting but ….. 🙈

Iran and Oman appear to be on the verge of an agreement about the Strait.

Allegedly, invoking anger is a successful way to mobilise voters.
Responding to Iam64's post.
Perhaps that's how Reform gains support?

Maybe so Maremia, we have a lot of noisy angry people, often men as we saw after Farage called for rage
They’re angry in their personal lives, as shown by the history of domestic abuse in many of those arrested

Trump has utterly failed in Iran.

The editorial in the Observer addresses the issue today and I quote from the final paragraph.

“Barack Obama showed what could be done. He devoted 20 months of negotiations to the 2015 Iran nuclear accords. No lives were lost, no missiles launched, no trade bottlenecks closed, no shipping tolls levied.
It was a deal Trump scorned, tore up and now can’t come close to replicating”

If ever anyone wants evidence as to why Trump is one of the worst presidents in USA history, look no further - everything Trump touches turns to dust.

Israel rejects Trump’s peace plan for Gaza

Iam64

Maybe so Maremia, we have a lot of noisy angry people, often men as we saw after Farage called for rage
They’re angry in their personal lives, as shown by the history of domestic abuse in many of those arrested

Spot on there.

Whitewavemark2

Israel rejects Trump’s peace plan for Gaza

Of course Netanyahu has rejected it, Trump thought he was in cahoots with a likeminded idiot when he said yes to Netanyahu’s call for war, he really hadn’t a clue what kind of maelstrom he was getting into. Now Trump is left looking like a prize sucker after Netanyahu played him like a fiddle.

Iam64

Maybe so Maremia, we have a lot of noisy angry people, often men as we saw after Farage called for rage
They’re angry in their personal lives, as shown by the history of domestic abuse in many of those arrested

I so agree with this. 👏🏽👏🏽

Monica "The Straits of Hormuz were open and running freely before Trump started to bomb Iran for no obvious reason. Then Iran closed it. What else would you expect them to do in these circumstances. It is a very useful weapon in their armoury. Maximum world chaos for a minimal effort on their part.

That Trump and his unsavoury coterie of carpet baggers failed to see that and plan for it shows just how far the US has fallen.

As far as I am concerned Trump got himself into this mess, he can get himself out of it."

Agree totally Monica, Trump and his mostly sycophantic administration seem to think they can do what they like and come out on top. It took years to negotiate the Nuclear deal that existed between Iran and the US and he's destroyed it with ever changing, mostly non-sensical reasons for doing so. The results have been catastrophic and the fact that nobody in the US admin. seemed to have foreseen the consequences advertises their lack of understanding on so many levels.