What to do with immigrants? - ask Shakespeare

Does anyone know what effort, if any, is being made to deter the migrants from coming here by publicising in their countries that life in the UK is not what the people smugglers promise it to be? Do they really understand that they won’t be automatically handed the keys to a house and a very big handout! Rather they will be housed with hundreds of other asylum seekers in, often, crowded accommodation and not allowed to work. Perhaps it would put some off coming here.

Local people do not know all the confidential detail of persons the council houses- not their health detail or anything else. It's not up to local people to screen and choose who their neighbours are. Local people do not choose the housing need criteria. Local people have to accept these facts or choose to move.

A landlord selects who they rent to, based on their own personal criteria. The people coming forward for private rentals, if on a council housing list- have not yet met the level of greater need than those the council has already housed. ie they have a lower need at that stage, no matter what number they are on the list.

Councils do not have the luxury of screening against personal criteria, what might or might not please the neighbours. They have a statutory duty to house, based on statutory criteria of need and must house in the properties available to them at that particular time. There are also circumstances where a Council may need to find emergency housing placement with little notice.

Entirely different from a private landlord- no comparison whatsoever.

foxie48

Primrose as a private landlord you have no obligation to house someone and can choose to whom you rent a property. This is not the case with councils who have the responsibility for housing those who are in the greatest need for help.

Local people may not agree though that these people “are in the greatest need of help.” Many will be living in overcrowded conditions sharing houses with parents etc. thousands have been on waiting lists for decades and so on. Someone on Radio 2 today said he was Number 250 on the council bidding list for about 10 years, then suddenly he went to a number up in the thousands!

Primrose as a private landlord you have no obligation to house someone and can choose to whom you rent a property. This is not the case with councils who have the responsibility for housing those who are in the greatest need for help.

Exactly WWM2- life doesn't work like that. I also agree with Luckygirl3- councils are between a rock and a hard place and have statutory housing duties. The council's cannot break the law and must fulfil their duties.

In what way should councils explain to neighbours who is coming to live in any of their properties and what information should be disclosed? Thats not viable.

Is the suggestion that neighbours who may be anti immigrant or anti single parents, anti muslim, anti people who claim benefits, anti ex offenders, anti travellers, anti homeless, or anti anything should be informed of such personal detail of who is coming to live in a near by property? Should neighbours either side of the poetry be informed or the whole neighbourhood? Should the council do that for every single person they house, white, young, retired etc? If not all- whcih groups are to be included?

What difference would that make anyway?

People who are prejudiced and/or anti any of the above categories, will still be anti any of the above whether informed or not. If informed they will spread their views prior to the persons moving in. If they are pre disposed to violent protest the knowledge will not change their predisposition I wouldn't have thought.

This wasn't an incident of violent protest just by neighbours after all?

I think councils are between a rock and a hard place. The council quite rightly has a duty to make provision (similarly with the Traveller community) whilst also knowing that whatever they do there will be people who will be made unhappy by it.

LemonJam

Nobody actually ever gets to choose new neighbours or gets consulted on who is moving in when someone else is moving out. The owner/landlord/property agent or council of a property gets to decide who lives in and moves into a property, not the neighbours.

Someone always has the option to move if they dont like their new neighbours. But we all know, or should know that it is against the law to be violent towards, intimidate or harass new neighbours on the basis you don't like them.

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Yes, we’ve had some very peculiar if not downright horrible neighbours over the years.

We didn’t get to choose.

But I would have no more thought to be violent towards them than fly to the moon.

That is not how life works.

I know that but as a Landlord I always consider the neighbours and ensure I rent it to people I think would cause them no trouble or concern.

If it’s social housing then there may be bad feeling that it is not going to local people and I do understand that.

The Council could and should have explained the situation to people in the neighbourhood BEFORE the new tenants arrived. I think this has been handled badly. They should also explain to the new people that they must behave in an acceptable way too.

Let me just repeat again, I do not condone the behaviour of a few people in the Thetford area.

Nobody actually ever gets to choose new neighbours or gets consulted on who is moving in when someone else is moving out. The owner/landlord/property agent or council of a property gets to decide who lives in and moves into a property, not the neighbours.

Someone always has the option to move if they dont like their new neighbours. But we all know, or should know that it is against the law to be violent towards, intimidate or harass new neighbours on the basis you don't like them.

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Think thats what most people would do AGAA4.

We are all human beings at the end of the day, so being civil and welcoming to new neighbours makes the world a better place.

I live next door to a rental so every so often different people arrive "who I know nothing about".
I greet them with a smile and a welcome to the area. They have always been friendly in return.
Being hostile and suspicious of new people will never bode well.

The challenge of housing immigrants is undeniable. But the plea not to dehumanise them is a valid one.

But for a random twist of fate this could be any of us.

The Chief Constable still says nothing about the rights or feelings of the neighbours. How many on here who previously lived beside a house with maybe 2 or 3 occupants and are now faced with 8 or 10 people who you know nothing about, would find that acceptable? Especially without being informed.

I am not condoning the violence or aggressive behaviour, I am just pointing this out.

Whitewavemark2

But he says it with so much more poetic authority then you would ever find on here😊

Yes, very often it's not what you say it's how you deliver it in terms of breath and expression, which doesn't come across in words on a page, however articulate you are.

True, MaizieD, but it is interesting that the same point was being made in the 16th century. If I remember correctly, the context was the prentices being afraid of losing their jobs.

But he says it with so much more poetic authority then you would ever find on here😊

Whitewavemark2

Primrose53

Luckygirl3

The chief constable of Norfolk has said much the same thing as Shakespeare. One can only commend him for this:

^"This is people's lives we're talking about," he said. "This is human beings we're talking about and we ask the public that are protesting just to think about that for a moment."^

He makes no mention of the feelings of people who have not been consulted about turning houses into HMOs which could have been used to house local people. Very unbalanced comment.

Have you listened to the speech in the link.

If so, I’d be interested in your reaction.

TBH, superb as Sir Ian's delivery is, the speech itself says nothing more than has been said many times on this forum over the past few years.

Put yourself in their place in a foreign country.

Primrose53

Luckygirl3

The chief constable of Norfolk has said much the same thing as Shakespeare. One can only commend him for this:

^"This is people's lives we're talking about," he said. "This is human beings we're talking about and we ask the public that are protesting just to think about that for a moment."^

He makes no mention of the feelings of people who have not been consulted about turning houses into HMOs which could have been used to house local people. Very unbalanced comment.

The Police comments are not unbalanced at all:

Norfolk's chief constable Paul Sanford told the BBC: "We have moved asylum seekers away from properties in the town, that's absolutely correct.” He urged the public not to make assumptions and said there were Thetford residents now "concerned for their own safety”. "This is people's lives we're talking about," he said. "This is human beings we're talking about and we ask the public that are protesting just to think about that for a moment."

Assistant Chief Constable Julie Dean, who is overseeing the police response to the disorder, said: “We will always facilitate and support the right to peaceful protest, and we recognise that people may hold strong views and feelings about issues. However, no matter how strongly those views are held, there is no place for violence, intimidation or criminal behaviour
“Our role is to keep people safe. We have a duty to protect everyone in our communities, maintain public order and prevent harm. We will not stand by and allow violence to take place, whether that is directed towards members of the public, local residents or police officers carrying out their duties.
“Where criminal offences are committed, we will take robust action. Our focus remains on maintaining public safety and ensuring people can go about their lives without fear of violence or disorder.”

The Police are doing their job. The comment to think about these people as human beings is a very balanced and dignified comment in my view.

Primrose53

Luckygirl3

The chief constable of Norfolk has said much the same thing as Shakespeare. One can only commend him for this:

^"This is people's lives we're talking about," he said. "This is human beings we're talking about and we ask the public that are protesting just to think about that for a moment."^

He makes no mention of the feelings of people who have not been consulted about turning houses into HMOs which could have been used to house local people. Very unbalanced comment.

Have you listened to the speech in the link.

If so, I’d be interested in your reaction.

Basgetti

Feelings are one thing. Violent actions quite another.

I was referring to the comment, not the actions.

As human beings we have to live alongside others and our needs have to be balanced against those of others. This always creates the possibility of conflict where needs do not coincide or are in competition. But it is wrong to dehumanise others whose needs conflict with ours.

Feelings are one thing. Violent actions quite another.

Luckygirl3

The chief constable of Norfolk has said much the same thing as Shakespeare. One can only commend him for this:

^"This is people's lives we're talking about," he said. "This is human beings we're talking about and we ask the public that are protesting just to think about that for a moment."^

He makes no mention of the feelings of people who have not been consulted about turning houses into HMOs which could have been used to house local people. Very unbalanced comment.

Luckygirl3

The chief constable of Norfolk has said much the same thing as Shakespeare. One can only commend him for this:

^"This is people's lives we're talking about," he said. "This is human beings we're talking about and we ask the public that are protesting just to think about that for a moment."^

That’s asking a lot.

The chief constable of Norfolk has said much the same thing as Shakespeare. One can only commend him for this:

"This is people's lives we're talking about," he said. "This is human beings we're talking about and we ask the public that are protesting just to think about that for a moment."