The far left in France, could it happen here?

winterwhite

Yes I think it could happen here. It was not about education/school buildings after the couple of days, and anyway ours are nothing to write home about.

Disenchanted young men plus balaclavas are not unique to France. Look what happened in Portsmouth a few weeks ago.

Yes, we are in more danger from the far right and Russia.

As MI5 identified.

"I actually don't disagree with you about "big business" the malign influence of the BIG corporations who evade their fair share of tax, use their lobbyists to wield undue influence and buy huge swathes of services that should be in the public domain, foreign ownership of utilities, milking those for all their worth, -"

It's not the dominance of big business thats the problem, it's the inability of government to regulated and tax them.
The government is omnipotent it can change taxation and laws whenever it wants to benefit the nation, in recent years they have failed miserably.

David49

"I actually don't disagree with you about "big business" the malign influence of the BIG corporations who evade their fair share of tax, use their lobbyists to wield undue influence and buy huge swathes of services that should be in the public domain, foreign ownership of utilities, milking those for all their worth, -"

It's not the dominance of big business thats the problem, it's the inability of government to regulated and tax them.
The government is omnipotent it can change taxation and laws whenever it wants to benefit the nation, in recent years they have failed miserably.

Well that too, but there seems to be a collusion among western democracies to let them have a free rein, some sort of subliminal quid pro quo I imagine. I doubt whether they hold sway in authoritarian China, where the state controls pretty much everything. We don't vote for them, these businesses and their lobbyists yet they wield significant power.

A man, has been arrested over the burning of the town hall in Limoges.

He's French
He's white.
Age 34
To quote French authorities:
Un activiste d’ultragauche - Left
He has a criminal past.

Well, I think that says it all.

MaizieD

fancythat

Macron said far-left agitators, Lecornia said far-left agitators, Julien Jegon said enacted by radical islamists and far-left agitators.

It is entirely in all these people's interests to blame the left.

To most people who think for themselves it is clear that the violence and crime are not at all political, it's just opportunism on the part of the violent and criminal.

To most people who think for themselves it is clear that the violence and crime are not at all political, it's just opportunism on the part of the violent and criminal.

During my first ever demonstration way back in the late 60s it became immediately obvious that there were an awful lot of criminal and violent opportunists infiltrating into the crowd. Unfortunately, their behaviour was then used by the newspapers the next day (no internet then) to condemn the legitimacy of the march. A police officer who my friends and I got to chat with after the event was over warned us that these 'elements' would infiltrate any London-based demos. But that cut no ice with my mother who berated me after seeing images of the scuffles in one of the daily newspapers; the reporting and images of which completely failed to acknowledge the largely peaceful protest.

Un activiste d’ultragauche - Left

I thought you said that 'ultra gauche' was more like 'anarchist', MT?

TerriBull

David49

"I actually don't disagree with you about "big business" the malign influence of the BIG corporations who evade their fair share of tax, use their lobbyists to wield undue influence and buy huge swathes of services that should be in the public domain, foreign ownership of utilities, milking those for all their worth, -"

It's not the dominance of big business thats the problem, it's the inability of government to regulated and tax them.
The government is omnipotent it can change taxation and laws whenever it wants to benefit the nation, in recent years they have failed miserably.

Well that too, but there seems to be a collusion among western democracies to let them have a free rein, some sort of subliminal quid pro quo I imagine. I doubt whether they hold sway in authoritarian China, where the state controls pretty much everything. We don't vote for them, these businesses and their lobbyists yet they wield significant power.

^Well that too, but there seems to be a collusion among western democracies to let them have a free rein,

I keep telling you all, time and time again, it's because the neoliberal economic ideology is designed to work that way. Company 'law' , regulation and taxation policies have been deeply influenced by them in the name of market freedom.

He has a documented history of involvement with anti-capitalist and anarchist networks. He is an activist linked to "far-left" and "ultra-left" movements.
The mayor of Limoges called him the brains of the operation, the instigator.

MartavTaurus

He has a documented history of involvement with anti-capitalist and anarchist networks. He is an activist linked to "far-left" and "ultra-left" movements.
The mayor of Limoges called him the brains of the operation, the instigator.

Nasty man!

l'ultra-gauche se situe historiquement et idéologiquement à gauche.
The French definition.

,

valdali

I don't think so.
British culture echoes USA at least as much as France & the far left aren't rioting there even under extreme right wing governance.

It is worrying though, feels like any issue can set off riots these days.

My thoughts on reading the OP was any such rioting and looting would be likely to be attached to the far right over here.

I agree with Casdon that in every country there is an "element of criminality and violence" that will attach itself to the group most likely to encourage them to act out this behaviour.

"I keep telling you all, time and time again, it's because the neoliberal economic ideology is designed to work that way. Company 'law' , regulation and taxation policies have been deeply influenced by them in the name of market freedom."

Free enterprise is good, but tech companies are not paying their share of taxation in the UK, we are rushing headlong into a AI revolution that will reduce the number of jobs greatly, taxation needs to change to enable the economy to change. If there is to be more low paid jobs personal tax revenue will also fall, it has to be replaced.

It could happen here, especially if stirred up by Reform and Restore, parties which would benefit from chaos.

Grantanow

It could happen here, especially if stirred up by Reform and Restore, parties which would benefit from chaos.

The riots could certainly happen here, but the politician in France causing the most chaos is a million kilometres apart from those leading Reform and Restore here. So it couldn't happen on the same premise here.

MartavTaurus

Grantanow

It could happen here, especially if stirred up by Reform and Restore, parties which would benefit from chaos.

The riots could certainly happen here, but the politician in France causing the most chaos is a million kilometres apart from those leading Reform and Restore here. So it couldn't happen on the same premise here.

If the premise which is driving the current protests in France is the cost of living, and the failure of the state to provide decent public services using the excuse that there is no money to do so, then I think it could very well happen here. It wouldn’t really make much immediate difference if the chaos were caused by a left or right leaning politician, the underlying drivers remain the same.

The ultimate result could probably be quite different, though. The ‘right’ in the UK are likely to perpetuate the economic policies which produced the unrest in the first place. I’m not so sure about the left; they might be just the same economically as the right or they ‘might’ just have the imagination to decide that doing things differently might actually have different results.

There are certainly issues in the education system, but you cannot say that public services are poor in France. During his long and complex three years of serious illness, my husband had a great deal of fast and cutting edge medical treatment and during those years we were both supported by services provided at home by the "maison de solidarité".
Roads are in good repair, making energy supplies as cheap as possible for people is government policy and there are strict controls on the rental of property. My neighbours' children paid about 300€ a year for university and had subsidised lodgings.
One of the economic problems is that so much is spent on public services, but there is very little outsourcing to private companies of support workers.

@Mamie

You say that public services are good in France but wasn't the original complaint about public education? Poor building maintenance, shortage of resources and teachers?

I appreciate that it has moved on since to encompass the cost of living crisis.

How is very little outsourcing a problem? Here in the UK too much outsourcing to private companies is seen as part of our problems. Water & Care Homes being particularly highlighted.

I was trying to say that the lack of outsourcing is a good thing, but sorry that wasn't very clear. Problem that public services cost so much, good that services stay within the state and don't allow outsiders to make huge profits. While some hospitals are in partnership with outside agencies, the state control is strict.
Yes, there are problems in education and resources are under strain especially in socially deprived and / or remote areas.
I don't know if that is because of poor ministerial, regional or local leadership. My own experiences, which are obviously limited to a small number of schools, would suggest that education has failed to move with the times.
The changes in government in the last years have not helped.

In this country there are a lot of people who think that public services are wasteful and not value for money, is that the case in France too Mamie.

No, I think generally the services are valued and people are proud of them, but some are unhappy, for example, where there are shortages in very rural areas. In our small town we could always get a GP appointment within 48 hours. Blood tests are available in local centres all day and results arrive by email the same evening. Care workers and district nurses are readily available. There is a lot of support for keeping elderly people at home as long as possible.
The cost of living crisis has hit hard because of weather and poor harvest this year plus high fuel prices.
And then there is French "miserablism" where people like to complain, but wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

I think the UK agitators ,whether left or right, are more interested in the small boat crossings at the moment but the scenes of the rioting abroad are truly frightening even though they started off as peaceful demonstrations from students unhappy with the standard of education they were receiving.

Of course it can happen here. The French have always been more proactive and tenacious than us about protesting which in some ways I admire. However, what we are seeing is devastating because it detracts from the genuine concerns the public have about their systems.
What is happening is so counter-productive. Now the French Government will have to concentrate on repairing the damage to the buildings and find money to better the education services, etc. It only takes a number of aggressive thugs, anarchists or extremists to get things started and then pack mentality seems to kick in. We are not immune to this in this country especially with the discontent with politicians, immigration and spending cuts.

Social media allows the anarchistic groups to access and influence so many. I would expect it at some point.

I live in France, about 150km north of Limoges. Our two local towns had small (20 in one and 40 or so in the other) demonstrations by students from the Lycee about school conditions, lack of teachers that sort of thing. They had placards, they shouted a bit and some parents marched with them.
On the Sunday I was at a village fête, where the noisiest things were the folk dancers and the only things that got roasted were the chestnuts!

No violence, no looting, just taking part in a democratic demonstration.

Protesting on the streets is pretty normal here- it can be a bit inconvenient (like when the local farmers left a huge pile of manure outside the Préfecture) but not violent or lawless.

What was seen all over the media were peaceful normal protests taken over by thugs with their own agendas- either political trying to stir up trouble, or simply to loot and smash things “for fun”.

Overwhelming people are shocked and horrified by events- our local and other town halls including Limoges have had peaceful crowds gather in solidarity against the violence.

I see a man has been arrested in Limoges- good! Whether these events have been instigated by the far left, the right, foreign governments, immigrants or just random thugs or a mixture of all of these depends on which paper you read imho.

I think people should learn their own history. We have a fine tradition of rioting in the UK. We also have a fine history of peaceful protest although it seems that is enough to get you arrested nowadays.

The reasons for rioting are universal; poverty, oppression, disenfranchisement and being ignored and looked down on by people in power with no idea of the reality of their day to day lives.

Yes. A small minority of opportunist criminally minded folk will jump on the band-wagon but that should not be used as a tool to overlook the reasons behind the initial protests.

Just my opinion.