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Is morality something you expect of others?

(442 Posts)
trisher Sun 09-Aug-20 10:04:15

The PM has said ""But now that we know enough to reopen schools to all pupils safely, we have a moral duty to do so."
Given his very unsavoury history does he have the right to call on others to behave in a "moral' way? I was always taught that morality should begin with yourself and then you should expect others to behave with morals. So can you expect morals from others if you don't have any personally?

gillybob Sun 09-Aug-20 10:07:37

I’m not sure trisher but I do understand what you are saying.

I think being the PM he has to take a moral overview despite his own private misgivings . A bit like telling a child off for something you did yourself when you were young or being against divorce when you are divorced? I’m not explaining myself very well .

MissAdventure Sun 09-Aug-20 10:09:28

Don't do as I do, do as I say?

Galaxy Sun 09-Aug-20 10:11:00

I would no more take moral guidance from Johnson than I would fly to the moon naked.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 09-Aug-20 10:12:51

Galaxy

I would no more take moral guidance from Johnson than I would fly to the moon naked.

😄😄

trisher Sun 09-Aug-20 10:20:45

That's interesting gillybob and I agree we do warn our children about things we did when we were young. I do hope when we do it that we are warning about the lessons we learned and not just preaching at them. I do wonder what BJ tells his children.

lemongrove Sun 09-Aug-20 10:21:00

I think you are on the right track gillybob
When a PM says ‘we’ he means the government and all of us.
Putting children, their education, health and mental health first is paramount.
I never expect a PM to have the high personal morals of the Archbishop of Canterbury in any case.

trisher Sun 09-Aug-20 10:23:13

lemon I think we know who he means. The question is can you expect others to behave in a moral way if you don't yourself?

Nortsat Sun 09-Aug-20 10:23:28

Well he certainly can’t claim the moral high ground ...
As PM he can call for us to behave in a moral way. However, he personally sets a terrible example.

I agree MissA that he, Cummings and the rest of them appear to set ‘don’t do as I do, do as I say’ .... as their example. The rules of behaviour they expect from ordinary people, seem anathema to them (hypocrites).

Pantglas2 Sun 09-Aug-20 10:26:03

So we’re back to ‘Let him who is without sin cast the first stone’ aren’t we? So it ain’t gonna be me!

lemongrove Sun 09-Aug-20 10:31:30

trisher

lemon I think we know who he means. The question is can you expect others to behave in a moral way if you don't yourself?

From your OP it reads that you think it was BJ personally and not the government or the rest of UK society.
My answer is yes, if you are the head of the government you have to make announcements/pronouncements on what society should be doing.What else are you there for?
You have to separate the political life from the personal life.

MaizieD Sun 09-Aug-20 10:32:37

I do wonder what BJ tells his children.

That is so funny (ha ha), trisher when you are thinking about Borisovich and morals. He doesn't even know how many children he has...

Being the supposed 'leader' of the UK doesn't endow him with any right to make moral judgements. He is a deeply immoral individual; most people know that and treat his pronouncements with the contempt they deserve.

(If only his recognition of 'moral duty' extended to the rest of his governance)

Callistemon Sun 09-Aug-20 10:33:30

I can see the difference between having a moral duty towards a section of society by someone in charge of those duties eg the education of children and the sexual morals of the person.

It's a matter of semantics.
Two separate meanings.

Galaxy Sun 09-Aug-20 10:34:18

I want even thinking of his private life I was thinking of his morals in public life.

quizqueen Sun 09-Aug-20 10:39:43

Schools and workplaces should never have closed in the first place. What should have happened was a total ban on anyone new entering the county for several months and those returning home put in quarantine.

GrannyGravy13 Sun 09-Aug-20 10:43:29

He is correct in as much as we know enough to reopen schools to all pupils safely, we have a moral duty to do so

Our Children and Grandchildren need to be in school for their educational and emotional needs and it is beyond doubt that all in education/ early years should work together to ensure that schools open as normal in September.

Ellianne Sun 09-Aug-20 10:43:50

I think by saying "WE have a moral duty" he is adding weight to the decision made by a small group of people.
It is so difficult to separate the political life from one's personal life when you're in a goldfish bowl.

MaizieD Sun 09-Aug-20 11:02:38

Galaxy

I want even thinking of his private life I was thinking of his morals in public life.

As he doesn't have any morals in either his private or public life the distinction means nothing to me.

He should have just said 'We have a duty to..etc' It would have conveyed the same idea and been just as effective, or, even, more effective.

But the stupid man just can't resist the temptation to use hyperbole all the time, can he?

Jabberwok Sun 09-Aug-20 11:04:19

B.J is not the only person in high office to have led a colourful private life! or anywhere else come to that, even on here, God forbid!!!!! These moralistic comments are so sanctimonious, a lot of people marry more than once and have affairs, dear old Jeremy for one comes to mind!

MaizieD Sun 09-Aug-20 11:05:18

Ellianne

I think by saying "WE have a moral duty" he is adding weight to the decision made by a small group of people.
It is so difficult to separate the political life from one's personal life when you're in a goldfish bowl.

What 'group of people' are you thinking of here, Ellianne?

Because, as far as I can see, none of the government has any morals; to pretend that they do just intensifies the insult to those who actually do have morals.

MaizieD Sun 09-Aug-20 11:09:57

Jabberwok

B.J is not the only person in high office to have led a colourful private life! or anywhere else come to that, even on here, God forbid!!!!! These moralistic comments are so sanctimonious, a lot of people marry more than once and have affairs, dear old Jeremy for one comes to mind!

The man's private sex life is the least of the problems, Jabberwok.

He's a stinking sewer of immorality wherever you look.

trisher Sun 09-Aug-20 11:18:44

There is also the issue of how people behave influencing the public more than what they say. Cummings visit to Durham was followed by an abandoning of lockdown, but BJ thinks he can influence the public by preaching.

suziewoozie Sun 09-Aug-20 11:22:47

There’s marrying more than once and then there’s tomcatting around whilst your children are young, impregnating various women, some of whom go on to have your child and others who abort, lying about your affairs/ children, and then there’s supporting the man who runs the country who flouts the rules on lockdown, giving peerages to your own brother, a loafish cricketer, multimillion pound contracts to friends/relatives of friends for services/products not fit for purpose. There’s lying to every employer you’ve ever had, at the dispatch box and podium - in fact every time you open your mouth. There are many ways in which a persons morality can be judged in their personal,life, their working life and Johnson fails every single one of them.

growstuff Sun 09-Aug-20 11:30:32

GrannyGravy13

He is correct in as much as we know enough to reopen schools to all pupils safely, we have a moral duty to do so

Our Children and Grandchildren need to be in school for their educational and emotional needs and it is beyond doubt that all in education/ early years should work together to ensure that schools open as normal in September.

Yes, we do know how to open schools safely BUT we won't be opening them safely. Primary schools might be relatively safe because children under 10 seem to be less prone to being infected. However, at secondary level, where pupils are just as prone to infection and infectious as adults, the decision to have full classes full-time is downright immoral.

Pupils can't sit further than a metre apart because classrooms are too small. I've seen the details some schools are planning, but it's still a disaster waiting to happen.

There is still no adequate testing and tracking system in place, which every scientist says is a prerequisite. It's the government's moral duty to make sure there is, so maybe that's what he meant.

growstuff Sun 09-Aug-20 11:37:22

This is a typical secondary school classroom. How safe does it look to you?