Is morality something you expect of others?

I would certainly not in any way think that Boris Johnson is a moral person. Nonetheless, the message that Boris gave out was a call to the morality of the whole country.

That Message is that ALL CHILDREN have to be brought back into full-time school based education in September for anything short of that situation would be a moral failure by all to those children.

To that message I one hundred percent subscribe, and so should all.

^What 'group of people' are you thinking of here,Ellianne?
Because, as far as I can see,noneof the government has any morals; to pretend that they do just intensifies the insult to those who actuallydohave morals.^

I'm thinking also of some of the scientists MaisieD. A couple of them seemed to have moral integrity and kept their personal lives out of it. I would be surprised if they haven't given some input and advice, as they were constantly reviewing the situation with schooling.

Grandad1943

I would certainly not in any way think that Boris Johnson is a moral person. Nonetheless, the message that Boris gave out was a call to the morality of the whole country.

That Message is that ALL CHILDREN have to be brought back into full-time school based education in September for anything short of that situation would be a moral failure by all to those children.

To that message I one hundred percent subscribe, and so should all.

How moral is it to place teenagers and staff in an unsafe situation?

I subscribe to a view which is responsible and does not put anybody at unnecessary risk.

It would be possible to have pupils all back on a rota system, combining face to face with online learning. I suspect that's what might end up happening in secondary schools. Contingency plans are already being put in place.

.If it is safe for people to fly (including teachers and school age children), if it is safe for them to go to museums, cinemas, theme parks, sea life centres, supermarkets, indoor shopping centres, restaurants etc. and gather in numbers at various friends houses it is safe for them to go to school.

There is nothing wrong with staff wearing masks and visors as children of all ages are now used to seeing them.

Testing is available, we have a drive through testing station close by, it us possible to get a test sent out to your home. As for tracing schools know pupils addresses.

growstuff in regard to your post @11:57 today I believe it is being reported that over fifty percent of children have not done well with the online learning they have received throughout the period of the school closures.

Therefore it is important that children receive a very large percentage of their learning once more in a physical classroom learning environment where full teacher support is available and that of other children in their year group.

Whatever problems there are to be overcome then that must be accomplished. Anything less will be a failure of those children who are already being referred to as the "Covid Generation.

GrannyGravy13 You couldn't really teach in a mask. And all of the situations you are using are things you could choose to do. No one is pressuring you to do them and no one is accusing you of being in breech of your "moral duty" if you choose not to do them. But teachers who may fear for themselves and some of their pupils are being so pressured and by someone whose moral failures are acknowledged by everyone.

The home tests have been stopped because they were shown not to be reliable. Testing needs to be compulsory and results back within 24 hours. That's not happening.

The nearest testing station to me is 15 miles away and public transport is poor.

People in museums, theme parks etc aren't crammed together like sardines as they will be in a classroom, many of which are poorly ventilated.

Schools have been advised by the government not to let their staff or pupils wear masks and some schools have actually banned them.

Grandad1943

growstuff in regard to your post @11:57 today I believe it is being reported that over fifty percent of children have not done well with the online learning they have received throughout the period of the school closures.

Therefore it is important that children receive a very large percentage of their learning once more in a physical classroom learning environment where full teacher support is available and that of other children in their year group.

Whatever problems there are to be overcome then that must be accomplished. Anything less will be a failure of those children who are already being referred to as the "Covid Generation.

I accept that many pupils have not done well out of school, so the moral duty is for the government to ensure that they are taught in a safe environment. Secondary schools will not be safe, if they are accepting full classes full-tie. It's as simple as that. They need to introduce a rota system. The government also needs to deliver the laptops it promised.

Look at the picture I posted. Would you expect office or factory workers to be that close to each other for five hours a day?

*full-time

trisher it is possible to teach in a face shield.

Schools need to be open our young deserve a full education.

If staff have underlying health problems then they should be redeployed. They could mark pupils work, prepare lessons and shoulder some of the bureaucracy of those teachers who are actually teaching.

There needs to be a consensus across the teaching profession to get on and adapt to teaching with Covid-19 being around. It is not going to disappear overnight, a vaccine is still very much theoretical.

Sitting pupils in front of a computer, tablet or smartphone in their bedroom is not an education and to my mind is morally wrong to withhold the education which is their right.

Suziewoozie I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. The big problem I have is trying to set aside my inability to trust and believe anything this administration, in particular Johnson say, although I do acknowledge that children must get back into school. As far as I am concerned, he lost any right to tell anyone what they should do after he defended the Cummings fiasco, and that's without airing my well known opinion of his personal morality. It is an indication of the arrogance of the man that he doesn't see the possible consequence of using words such as 'moral responsibility',

growstuff, whatever the problems are it is clear from the government that children WILL BE returning to there schools in September.

The Education profession have surely been aware that the above would be the situation and therefore should now be working with government and the Health & Safety Executive to overcome any problems in that restart by action both in and outside the schools

Teachers are willing and will do what is needed. Teachers are already planning to adapt, including not marking physical books and not allowing singing or chanting in the classroom. Rather than pupils moving from one classroom to another, the teachers will be the ones moving around. Schemes of work have been adapted.

It's the government which needs to step up to the mark and accept the realities. It also needs to put a bomb under the test and track system to get it working, which it currently isn't.

Have you been near a state secondary school and classroom recently Grandad1943? Probably not from your comment.

Most classroom have double desks to accommodate 30 pupils on double desks, and barely space to move around. Some top 'sets' often have 30 to 34, with some having to sit at the end of a double desk sideways, so 3 for some desks. Working with the government and the H&SE is NOT going to solve that.

If youd halve classes so some distancing can take place-perhaps a huge number of mobile classrooms in grounds (so many having been sold anyhow) where are you going to find the teaching staff to teach x2 the number of classes. And what aabout specialist classrooms equipped for specialist subjects- like science? Cloud and cuckoos come to mind.

Grandad1943

growstuff, whatever the problems are it is clear from the government that children WILL BE returning to there schools in September.

The Education profession have surely been aware that the above would be the situation and therefore should now be working with government and the Health & Safety Executive to overcome any problems in that restart by action both in and outside the schools

It is working with health and safety organisations. The conclusion is that it will be a disaster unless there is efficient testing and tracking, which there currently isn't. Schools need to be shut down with absolute minimum delay when cases are identified.

I can almost guarantee that secondary schools will not be open every day for all pupils from September. Maybe you could explain why a number of organisations have been given government grants to develop online teaching materials, so that schools can offer a combination of face to face and online learning.

biba Exactly! I regularly taught classes with 35 pupils with only 32 desk spaces and chairs. We were forever borrowing chairs from neighbouring classrooms.

In case Grandad missed it, I'll post the picture of a typical classroom again.

So disappointing! I thought this was going to be an interesting thread not another opportunity for the Boris Bashers to gang up together once more. Hard to believe that anyone would be stupid enough to flout the rules because they don’t approve of the prime minister.

If the medical professionals can work for hours and hours wearing masks why can’t teachers teach wearing a mask? At least they can take breaks every few hours - not something that happens that much when you work for the NHS.

Why can't teachers wear masks? Because the government has told them not to!! It's in the guidance.

How would you make a classroom safe with so many pupils crammed into a small classroom?

It could be a very interesting thread if you could come up with a solution. Maybe there would be something to discuss.

What Johnson said was grandstanding, presumably to take the moral high ground away from Starmer.

Grandad ,nearly everyone on here has a first class degree, were, and still believe they are, experts in the teaching profession, be it all some years ago! their morals are impeccable and I'm afraid your comments don't stand a chance of any kind of reasoned conversation!
Many people, even well known people, broke and are still breaking lockdown including dear old Jeremy. Are we to seriously believe that the actions of one person completely scuppered government advice! I know we are a pretty stupid nation , but surely not that bad?,!

You couldn't really teach in a mask, maybe not in a mask, Trisher, but Science, Art, Food Technology teachers are being advised to wear a visor. There is, of course, a safety issue here if a pupil needs rescuing from a dangerous situation. Teachers have a duty to protect their pupils first and foremost. Maybe teachers of other subjects could take up the visor option.
I'm not blowing trumpets again here, but in my GC's private prep school the nurse will be on hand to check daily temperatures and to perform tests if necessary. Year groups with a case in them will be quarantined immediately. The school sees it as its moral duty to keep everyone safe. Luckily the school took the initiative to open completely in June, so their new methods are tried and tested, and the parents' confidence in the school has been restored. I can report there were no cases of coronavirus during that time.

Apparently the government are also taking to the Health & Safety Executive in regard to schools fully reopening in September and that body has been in touch with safety organisations that regularly carry out work for the Safety Executive on a contractual basis.

In the above it is demonstrated the government's determination that ALL CHILDREN will be learning in their schools in September.

I believe also that Johnson has the overwhelming majority of the British population behind him in that determination.

Sussexborn if only it were a question of just not approving of the prime minister. It isn't just about HIS morals (although they certainly come into it) it's a question of shifting the "moral duty" from a government, that has steadily and succesfully underfunded education for years, onto the teachers and parents struggling to make decisions about what is best for their children in the face of very real and complicated conditions.

Ellianne Do you know the staffing ratio for your private prep school? And a school nurse!!! I remember those. Long gone of course in state schools.

It's just a soundbite - like most things he says it is without substance.

The whole school thing has not been thought through. If a teacher develops symptoms/tests positive or is asked to self-isolate because he/she has been in contact with someone infectious out of school, then there will be a class with no teacher (in primary) and no spare teachers to pick up that slack. And no money to pay for relief staff.

And what happens to that class? Will they be considered to be contacts and asked to isolate - and kept from school? And the other staff sitting in the staff room - will they also be contacts who will be asked to self-isolate?

The whole pack of cards will come tumbling down.