"must have" "at all" and "yeh - no"

Can be many doctors who all use the same room

Did anyone note the lack of an apostrophe after Prisoners (in Prisoners' Wives, BBC One, last night)? It appeared to be an on-screen error as television guides (e.g. Culture) added an apostrophe. Who's in charge for heaven's sake?!

Most doctors' surgeries also omit the apostrophe (hence Doctors Surgery). Again, who is in charge?

Sometimes it makes one despair ...

or a dash even.
Not given to worrying about punctuation in informal communication myself.
Even in pedants corner.
There are too many occasions when i really must worry.

jessM should there be a question mark after run?

oh well yes. so sad. and will it all make a difference in the long run... I am not convinced.
Enjoy shouting at the radio then.

Oh don't worry JessM. My pulse rate only goes into orbit when I hear truly awful news, such as today's bulletin about the tragic death of six of our boys in Afghanistan. This waste of young life is absolutely outrageous and puts our petty pedantry into some sort of perspective.

That sounds really bad for your stress levels jack

Irritated by 'kind of' ,'sort of' sometimes several times in one sentence. Even worse 'Kind of like'.

So do some clergymen and politicians!

"We were sat at the table." No! "We were sitting at the table."
"Me and John went to the cinema." No! "John and I went to the cinema."
"Mum gave it to my sister and I." No! "Mum gave it to my sister and me."

I could go on ....

BBC news presenters make me howl with fury when they make grammatical errors. If they can't get it right, what hope is there for our grandchildren?

I think that older people have always thought that young ones badly behaved and sloppy of speech.
I just think yeh/no is a particularly weird development.

Pensionista is right to ask about how children come to be so bad mannered. We do have to teach them as little children, which we did, back in the early 1980s. But my friend back then was a Brown Owl at a local Brownie pack, and taught the little ones manners because they were not being taught by their parents. Their mothers were openly grateful, and not one of them showed any shame for not having taught them at home.

My two lads joined the Australian Army Reserve while at university. (The money was a big help to them) Their Dad, an ex-Able Seaman in the RN in England told them they couldn't join unless they went as officers. He assumed our working class background would prevent this, as it could have done back in our day in the UK: he didn't really want them in the armed forces. But they both got in, and went through Duntroon (our Sandhurst) together successfully, and were immensely grateful for all that training in manners. Some cadets had to be taught how to eat properly at the table! And I've read about firms sending their aspiring executives on etiquette and manners training courses!

It is just like the correct use of English: they can't do it unless they've been taught. There are so very many parents out there who have no idea about how to bring up children, and the sad truth is that most of them just don't give a damn.

Perhaps as well as the parents of young children teaching good manners to their offsprings, we also need a campaign to get the BBC and others in the media to clean up their acts?

We could start by suggest to the media starting with the BBC, that they all adopt the motto "Manners makyth man"

Cheers Brian

No Annobel a grammar school in Trafford

Manners makyth man -motto of Winchester College. Not your grandson's school, Carol?

Mr glamma having a peek!! insists as he has done for years that "Grange Hill" and "Waterloo Road"are responsible in some way for bad attitude and bad manners in some youngsters,if they get away with it on TV why not in everyday life ? I will complain to anyone using bad language in front of me or my family it shows a complete lack of the English language.Carol my dear dads motto was always "Manners Maketh the Man" and he was a 6' 2" Liverpool docker.

The motto written on the school badge on my grandson's blazer says 'Manners Maketh Man.' Nice to see a school emphasising this.

I hate it at the bank when, having waited for ages, I approach the desk and the young lady says brightly "Thank you for waiting". Do we really have a choice?
Today at the garden centre a very pleasant young man served us, but we both remarked on the way home, "Why did he call us 'Guys'"? Obviously wanted to come over as friendly, but let's face it, we're not about to go down the pub with him!
Manners and respect are still very important, my older grandchildren and indeed my own children (now 40 something) would never use unacceptable language in front of us. When my children were young, we were walking through town past a group of bikers, all mouthing off, f-this and f-that. I was so incensed I walked up to them and asked them to "moderate" their language in public. These days I don't know if I would act so impulsively, but they apologised and quietened down. If actors and comics on television use bad language, why do we expect anything else from our younger generations.
Sound like some old harpy myself, must remember to take my tolerance pills!

pensionista From an early age, I was taught that good manners mattered. I hope that I've been a good role model to my own children, so that they in turn will raise decently behaved offspring. When confronted by yobbish behaviour, I feel sick to my socks. As we waited to board the bus from outside Glasgow Central Station, a group of loud-mouthed, uncouth young people, stood their ground and forced the driver to hold back for fear of running them down. When the driver called for the boys to move out of the way, he was treated to abusive foul-mouthed language. The "leader" of the gang, puffed out his chest and hollored - 'I could get you done for that...' I told the boy to 'grow up' and he told me to 'f... orf!'

Yes, I seethe when I get called yourself. It's a way of putting people at arm's length so they don't ask for something you're not prepared to give them. Typical banker!

susiecb I'm with you on that one, a work colleague (who has recently moved to the South West from Croydon) asked me if I lived in an "old property". My reply was delivered through gritted teeth.

The other thing that really pisses me off gets on my wick, is when contacting my (ex) bank. They seemed to think that using my name during almost every sentence counted as "building rapport". No it bloody doesn't, it is just annoying plus what is it with the use of the word "yourself" instead of "you"???? "Just bringing that up on the screen for yourself" Aaargh!

bagpussa gal after me own heart!

Not a rioja fan myself, but a good claret .... mmmm . Cheers all!

Was it a good Rioja susiecb just fancy a glass myself!! here we go

I hate houses/home being called properties! aren't they just houses? oops had best part of bottle of red wine with lunch!!!!!