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LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 27-Oct-16 17:55:03

Is our language going to the dogs?

Is good grammar a thing of the past, something the younger generations have been chipping away at gradually with text speak and auto-correct? Author and grammar expert Caroline Taggart isn't quite ready to blame our grammar failings on the youngsters...

Caroline Taggart

Is our language going to the dogs?

Posted on: Thu 27-Oct-16 17:55:03

(125 comments )

Lead photo

Is good grammar a thing of the past?

Whenever I do talks or radio phone-ins about grammar, usage and language generally, I'm struck by the number of people of my generation (let's say 50+, though I have to admit to 50++) who think that English is falling apart, that the young are ignorant and illiterate and that recent changes – particularly those brought about by texting and social media – are to be deplored.

I'm always slightly saddened by this, because it feels like part of the 'any change is for the worse' mentality that too often characterises advancing years. That said, I can be as guilty as anyone: years ago I had to supervise two young graduates working on a publishing project. They were bright, willing and articulate, but their spelling was atrocious and I found myself saying, 'If you kids had done Latin…' Good grief, I thought. I’m 35 and already I'm turning into my mother.

But hey. I write books about English, so of course I'm a bit of a pedant. I object to people writing should of instead of should have and using jargon such as firing on all cylinders (unless they are talking about a car) or the elephant in the room (unless there is one). I like precise language, too: when we have words that express different meanings – such as alternate and alternative, incredible and incredulous, moral and morale – losing those distinctions weakens the language.

The way we speak and write is as much a part of the way we present ourselves as the way we dress. Just as few of us would turn up for an interview or a formal dinner in torn-off jeans and a scruffy t-shirt, so we should tailor our language to the occasion.


It does matter, whatever the anti-pedantry brigade says. If ever I am on trial for my life, I hope that the jury will be disinterested rather than uninterested.

It matters. But it doesn't matter all the time. And there's the rub. In the pub with friends on a Friday night, we can get away with saying, 'Well, you know what I mean.' In a job interview or being introduced to sticklers of an older generation, we should try harder. The way we speak and write is as much a part of the way we present ourselves as the way we dress. Just as few of us would turn up for an interview or a formal dinner in torn-off jeans and a scruffy t-shirt, so we should tailor our language to the occasion. The important thing is to know the difference and be able to smarten ourselves up when it matters. IMHO.

That's an expression I find myself using more and more, as I become more dogmatic in my old age. It's short for 'in my humble opinion' and you use it – or at least I do – when the opinion you've just expressed isn't very humble at all. I like it because of a story a friend tells from the days when he was a magazine editor dealing with a particularly pompous contributor. The contributor ended a diatribe with this abbreviation, provoking the tart reply that the man had never had a HO in his L. My friend was well into his sixties at the time – don't tell me that we have nothing to learn from the young, and that there is no room for innovation in our language.

Caroline's book, Misadventures in the English Language, is published by Michael O'Mara and is available from Amazon.

By Caroline Taggart

Twitter: @citaggart

GrannyA11i Tue 13-Dec-16 01:32:57

yorkshiregel I love that poster! It's like the Eats shoots and leaves book! I hated my children and friends saying, "oh I would of....." instead of 'have' but they didn't even understand what was wrong!

Whanau1 Mon 12-Dec-16 22:25:59

Two changes that grate with me:
The use of the word "floor" instead of "ground". A floor is inside a building and the ground is outside. Even the BBC uses floor as in reports of, say, assaults where the victim of an assault in the street is "knocked to the floor".
Also the phasing out of the participle "sitting". Nowadays it is "I was sat........" rather than "I was sitting". Also, "I was stood......" rather than "I was standing".
I think that in 50 years time only speakers of English as a second language will be using English comprehensible to we older people. I won't be here but hate the thought that are beautiful language, which has a greater vocabulary than any other language and therefore is valued for its ability to describe complex ideas, is being so brutally pruned.

Yorkshiregel Mon 12-Dec-16 13:34:54

GrannyA11i I would say it matters because if you misuse spelling you could be saying something you didn't mean to say. I posted a link. If you look at it you will see what I mean.
I think things will only get worse now there is text speak and the children seem to live their lives on the internet and not in real life.

GrannyA11i Sun 11-Dec-16 13:37:09

I was brought up with correct grammar and attention to detail but when I say anything to one of my adult sons about misuse of apostrophes or whole words his response is "who says?" "Does it matter?"

I am now wondering, does it matter? !

Bellanonna Tue 06-Dec-16 23:20:51

I haven't noticed that, boggles. People from the Caribbean might use that pronunciation though, but it's much more difficult to say.

boggles Tue 06-Dec-16 12:03:19

The apple, the avenue, the East, What happened to 'theee' apple, theee avenue, theee East. Also why does every sentence now have to start with 'So' ??

MTDancer Tue 06-Dec-16 11:41:16

muskrat, I once saw an ebay listing that advertised a Virgina caravan - with draws. The caravan was a Baily Virginia caravan. It did make me laugh.
I know language evolves but not using punctuation and correct spellings often changes the meaning of the sentence. The one that gets me is "free" instead of "three" and it completes changes the meaning. It also zooms to be happening more often on T.V. too

annodomini Fri 02-Dec-16 14:21:00

In GCSE exams (English - I can't speak for other subjects - up to six marks can be deducted for bad spelling and punctuation. I don't know how they hit on the number six. I can remember well the rubric on our Scottish Highers papers: "Marks will be deducted for bad spelling, bad punctuation and for writing that is difficult to read". They didn't specify how many marks we could lose!

Day6 Fri 02-Dec-16 13:20:17

I've noticed estate agents often write about a property having a Dorma window. grin I have a duvet made by Dorma.

I loathe the way so many young people punctuate their speaking with "I was like..." The other day I overheard "He was like, moody, so I was like, whatever." They sound lacking in vocabulary, and dare I say it, rather dim too. It is heard so frequently. I get the feeling sometimes that a limited vocabulary and poor usage is because of a lack of reading. Older generations had to read to amuse themselves.

A real bugbear for me is "Can I get.." when ordering food, or asking for something. It really irritates me. "I'll have..." has worked for ages. hmm

Margs Tue 29-Nov-16 11:04:06

My all-time pet hate just has to be "know what I mean?" and pronounced "noramean?"

Aaaaaaaaaagh! I did a stint in a charity shop and was stuck with a manageress who used "noramean?" about every third sentence.......ye gods.

Yorkshiregel Tue 29-Nov-16 10:06:27

There's more:

Yorkshiregel Tue 29-Nov-16 09:51:24

Grannypiper. Was it Rheindahlen? My boys were supposed to go there but we opted for the Canadian High School instead. Some lessons were conducted in French there so they had to learn pretty quickly! It is closed down now I believe along with the HQ. Here's a link to funnies:

www.google.co.uk/search?q=Funny+grammar+and+punctuation+mistakes&biw=1373&bih=693&tbm=isch&imgil=O2wbGvFVOu_qzM%253A%253BxI6VYPY2LsaIHM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.oxbridgeediting.co.uk%25252Fblog%25252Fthe-funny-grammar-guide-to-punctuation-part-1-673%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=O2wbGvFVOu_qzM%253A%252CxI6VYPY2LsaIHM%252C_&usg=__HyYvXh9CIu-gZCal_0KTLDEi554%3D&dpr=0.95&ved=0ahUKEwiTtJj21s3QAhVLAsAKHVubCu0QyjcITg&ei=9E09WJPqNsuEgAbbtqroDg#imgrc=_

grannypiper Tue 29-Nov-16 08:07:03

Yorkshiregel that reminds me of the time my DD was at school, she started in NI and a year later we moved to Scotland. Both countries followed the same system and spelling was part of homework from day one, she brought home a tin that every night had 3 new words she had to learn to spell and put into a sentence. When my DD was 7 we moved to Germany had she attended a Services school. At the end of her first week she brought home a jotter that she was to use for homework, i read through her work and noted the spelling mistake she had made, i dint correct her as i assumed that the teacher would ring the word in red and my DD would be so horrified that she wouldn't make the mistake again.The following week i checked her jotter and there was no red ink, i asked what the teacher had said about her spelling and she replied "nothing". I made an appointment to see him and asked why the mistake was not highlighted and his answer was that spelling didnt matter anymore and was a old fashioned concept. When i asked him how on earth can you learn to read if you cannot spell and suggested that the reason he hadn't picked up the mistake was that he in fact couldn't spell maybe h he went as red just like the ink he should have been using.

Jalima Mon 28-Nov-16 15:19:17

Or even a chest of draws Alibombo

Yorkshiregel Mon 28-Nov-16 15:03:19

Well if you were watching the news at lunch time you may have seen the professor who says he is 'comfortable with bad spelling because it does not relate to intelligence'. I think spelling is very important and the same with punctuation. Suppose you were looking for an employee and they sent a form in which was in text speak. Would you employ them? Does it look good to other companies if they receive a letter or email from someone who cannot spell?

I remember teachers who said they didn't mind bad spelling as long as the pupil got their message across. Well I do not agree with that. I think we are seeing the result right now.

Alibombo Sun 27-Nov-16 09:13:11

"Special children's meals" is one that makes me chuckle. My grandchildren are special to me but I don't know what other people think of them.

Alibombo Sun 27-Nov-16 09:08:29

One of my many pet hates is "in the drawrer". No,no,no! It's "in the drawer". Where have they found the extra 'r'?

Jalima Fri 25-Nov-16 20:46:44

I like using conjunctions at the beginning of a sentence.

I also like to split infinitives.

As DH says - rules are made to be broken grin

etheltbags1 Fri 25-Nov-16 20:36:35

Hi Bella, I'm here just been work in hard then falling asleep as soon as in get in. Regards to you too. Actually I've often just logged in to read the forums. I'm a quiet lass really.

Bellanonna Thu 24-Nov-16 09:55:52

Ethel, nice to see you. I had been wondering where you were. Hope you're ok.
Yes those expressions are often heard nowadays. I have picked up no-brainer, I suppose it's just repeated exposure to these sayings. I'm sure we said things back in the day that our oarents didn't use. You just said "does my head in". Were you being ironic? That's something we didn't hear at one time too !

etheltbags1 Thu 24-Nov-16 09:49:05

people talk of something being a 'no brainer', I don't know what that means or, 'hello' said in a patronizing manner.
the phrase 'thinking outside the box' these are all new to me. Why cant people just say what they mean. I assume 'thinking outside the box' means looking at something objectively then why don't they say so . does my head in !

Cath9 Mon 21-Nov-16 17:27:24

I haven't read all the answers, but can understand the different accents,which has always been around. It is the slang words that seem to be getting more popular, although I will admit I do use the phrase:
'Hang on' in other words wait a minute before giving the answer or whatever.
When at school we were taught how unlady like it was to swear and never had a any male tudors etc all so old-fashioned now.

Anya Sun 20-Nov-16 21:04:02

Never heard 'mom' over hear yet hmm but then I'm told I've 'mild hearing loss'!

Andyf Sun 20-Nov-16 20:07:54

I'm noticing that Mom is beginning to be used over here instead of Mum. I have a feeling it will creep in gradually.

Nanna58 Sun 20-Nov-16 19:42:07

More of a pronunciation gripe, but, especially st this time of year I get infuriated by people pronouncing 'luxury' as ' lugsury'. You listen, it's rife!