Apostrophes

It's interesting that Lynne Truss, author of Eats Shoots and Leaves, has a sister, Liz, who was once Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Education.

Any grammatical errors in my posts I will blame on auto-correct

Witzend
having just sold our house in France, can assure contributors that the norm is now 6.5% of the selling price, which in our case was pretty substantial!!!

Jillybird, I sometimes I wonder whether hopeless SPAG is a requirement for being an estate agent! Not just apostrophes, but the shower cubicals, flower boarders, etc. And so often, nobody seems to care, let alone proof-read anything.

EAs are much less sloppy/more professional in some other countries, e.g. the US, but then they do have to have a professional qualification, and charge substantially more than is usual here - 5-6%, as my sister who lives in the US has told me.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I think the 'greengrocers' apostrophe' is nothing very new.

IMO many people think there some great mystery to where to put an apostrophe, and it's going to be too difficult for them to fathom - that is if they even realise that they have a problem with it, which IMO many don't.

Why it's evidently so often badly taught I don't understand. There's really nothing difficult about it. I used to teach English to mostly Arabic speakers and they would grasp it pretty quickly if presented clearly enough.

If it really is the case that some teachers don't know the rules, because they themselves weren't taught, there are cheap enough books or the Internet to teach them. Plus, IMO all trainee teachers, should be tested on basics like this, and sent for remedial English if necessary.

It appals me when people say these things don't matter any more. They most certainly do, and e.g. basic mistakes on a CV or covering letter can wreck a young person's chance of a job, if they're competing with a lot of others with much the same qualifications.

I know of one HR officer, my dd's generation, not a pernickety old,pedant like me! - whose method of weeding out a mass of very similar CVs was to bin any with basic SPAG mistakes.
And no, you can't rely on spellcheck.

I think that is one of the pitfalls of communicating only by written or spoken language. So much can be conveyed by body language and micro gestures . But I agree it is one of the reasons people object to what others say on here . They get offended by the wording where maybe no offence was intended.

I have been away from the UK for about 44 years now, too. Much has changed, but it's not as if we hadn't noticed. I go back regularly, and, anyway, the whole world has changed, so it's the same where I live, too.

As for apostrophes and other mistakes - they are particularly noticeable to those of us who speak other languages on a daily basis and are constantly thinking about grammar and punctuation.

But mistakes are made in other languages, too - and it's very worrying how badly some people understand their own language - especially monolinguals. Language is the main way we communicate - if we get it wrong, so that others misunderstand us, how are we supposed to get along with each other?

Should be kept. News item the other day re independence of Scotland - someone waving a banner “Scotlands Right” how many are there........?!!!!

It’s sad that so many English cannot use their own language correctly. I’ve just finished writing a children’s book and asked my 10-year old granddaughter to proof read it for me. It is not easy to spot your own typos etc.

I was delighted when she highlighted a possessive ‘its’ that I had written as ‘it’s’ (among other mistakes).

Try the ACCIDENTAL apostrophe by Caroline Taggart.
(Available on Postscript)

I had an English teacher who told us all about apostrophes, why they were used and about medieval usage such as 'the boyes book', conventions for possessives after names ending in 's' and so on. He also told us about general rules and conventions and also how and why place names which need them do not have them.

I found it all fascinating and have watched with interest as new usages have occurred , such as dropping the apostrophe in, say, 'Sainsbury's' and 'Barclay's' to make signs look neater.

I pass a sign for a lane called 'Foxes Piece' and it always makes me think! Fascinating subject.

A local hairdresser near me has a big name sign on the front of her shop saying "Doll'd up" and it annoys me every time I drive past.

I hate to say it but the apostrophe in 'Doll'd' is acting for the omission of the 'e' so is technically OK.

@evianers
What a wonderful-sounding life you seem to have led (or should that be 'lead'? ?).
Hope you settle well in Dorset & your ills are now behind you.

Rocknroll5me bad grammar annoys me, too, but I would still buy from the one who sells the best fish and chips, regardless of their education,

Spot the difference:

Those things over there are my husbands.
Those things over there are my husband's.

Funny that apostrophes are not used on road name signs in order, I believe, to save council money, so you get 'Kings Road' instead of 'King's Road' for example. So what should you write on the envelope?

Plural

Boys

Possessive

Boy's

Plural possesive

Boys'

If I'm wrong I'm a terrible TA lol

When I was in junior school a long time ago, we were taught grammar in minute detail and I get really sad when I see the dreaful grammatical errors that pop up everywhere these days. When my daughter was in junior school about 25 years ago, one of her teachers wrote in her exercise book:” You could of done . . . “ I showed it to her head teacher, who was appalled and promised to have a word!

There is one totally dedicated to apostrophes ;)

Glad to hear you are settling down well evianer. I can fully understand how it must have been difficult. And hope your health, for both of you, will improve as time goes by. Still got wonderful place in the sunniest of Swiss resort?

Not at all, Jaxie. I spent the last few years of my working life working with secondary age children who had reading difficulties. English is one of the most difficult languages to learn to read and write and not giving a t*ss about apostrophes just makes it more difficult for people who've never quite mastered it.

I'm not particularly keen on having to waste time working out from context the meaning that someone is trying to convey through the written word and I'm fully literate. For those who struggle it's a real bummer...

You should join the FB group ‘pedants corner’

Well said Jazie! Gloating over their superior education is not a nice trait but it would take a bulldozer or Chieftain tank to get the message through to them.

I tend to along with MarieEliza! I keep telling my OH that life is too short to spend it nitpicking over other people’s errors! Fortunately I only did one year of tedious grammar and then there was more time to read books, write stories and poems without worrying about constant criticism.

I honestly thought the UK had different punctuation rules from the US, because I've seen incorrect "its/it's" so many times in UK publications.

Nowadays online it's a matter of backup up and fixing Autocorrect, too.

A good rule of thumb on apostrophe is ‘if in doubt leave it out’

Is there a possibility that those of us who have no problems with punctuation are exhibiting a superiority complex when we delight in correcting those who don't give a damn about the apostrophe?