Narcissism / narcissistic - labelling

Lucca luckily for me I didn't have much to do with "the spectrum" before I retired for which I am grateful as it seems like a minefield.

However, my thoughts on "oh he's/ she's" ??? are often - not always - but often used as excuses.

An excuse for not wanting to see "what's real, what's not real and how to tell the difference" Granny Weatherwax courtesy of Sir Terry Pratchett.

It would appear that IF things are seen, too often they are seen, then assigned to "Someone" - that's not him/her/the parents- to fix. May be I'm just getting cynical in my old age.

In this world of "Rights" too often the balance of Responsibility is ignored. Either because the knowledge of Rights AND Responsibility isn't learned or there is very little (no) interest in knowing that for balance both those R's need to be used.

We all have bits that need work, firstly by our parents, family, teachers and friends (I believe in the saying it takes a village to raise a child) and then it's up to us to when we are adults to get ourselves fit for our roles in society.

So in answer to your question of "oh he's" on the spectrum. May be they are and in that case he/she needs help to find ways to live in the world in a way that is OK enough for them and OK enough for we "others" who are around them.

I really dislike it when it's an excuse for any rude behaviour.

It is really up to the person in the situation to discern if another persons "rude' behaviour is and within their ability, or not, to manage their behaviour due to any unchangeable conditions?

Or is the "oh he's" ... a way of giving permission for unsociable behaviour, an excuse to make no changes?

I don't really know but I think when we are in those situations often with the same people we can sort it out.

If it's a stranger in passing it's much harder to say if that person is on "the spectrum" or if it's an excuse.

However, I have a friend who works with people on "the spectrum", where she works some staff to put on kevlar protective clothing. I am not exaggerating, body armer and protective sleeves so "the spectrum" is very large.

We used to teach together and now she works in this very specialised area and she loves it. She tells me with the residents she works with there are no excuses, no political games, they are who they are and they are how they are and you can either deal with it or you don't work there.

If your gut is telling you the "oh he's" an excuse you are probably right but ... proceed with caution :-)

64andcruising, you said 'I think it is important to remember that anyone who has suffered at the hands of a Narcissist, diagnosed or undiagnosed, deserves the utmost sympathy because the damage done is long-lasting and devastating.' Would it not be just as true to says '...anyone who has suffered at the hands of a cruel person deserves the utmost sympathy because the damage done is long-lasting and devastating.'?

I had therapy last year for feelings I was experiencing arising from childhood events. My therapist said to me she thought my mother [now dead] was a Narcissist and pointed me in the direction of some books including It’s My Turn byTina Fuller and Unshame by Carolyn Spring. All of my mother’s behaviours indicate Narcissism but of course she was never formally diagnosed. The behaviours described by MissFoodLove indicate Narcissism but without a diagnosis her mother may or may not have been a Narcissist. Terms are bandied about these days with little regard to their real meaning, Bi-Polar will now become over used due to publicity about Kanye West. My 10 yr old GS says his cousin has ‘anger management issues’ when he’s just expressing anger and the term ‘on the Spectrum’ is applied over-frequently to anyone falling outside the speaker’s personal view of ‘normal’. I think it is important to remember that anyone who has suffered at the hands of a Narcissist, diagnosed or undiagnosed, deserves the utmost sympathy because the damage done is long-lasting and devastating. And yes, hearing the term mis-used is extremely annoying.

I agree with the OP on this.Online casual use of words like narc, toxic, autistic etc are not only possibly incorrect, but cheapen the experiences of those who know genuine cases.
Am sure that many of us have bad experiences from various adults from childhood until the present day, but unless somebody has been diagnosed then we can’t fling labels around.
The other side of the coin is that everyone seems to be a victim now ( on social media) and many lap it up.
(dons tin hat and retires behind sturdy wall.)

GrandmaMoira

I totally disagree that the person complaining about someone they diagnose as a narcissist must also be bad.
On the other hand, it does annoy me that people use the term narcissist for an unpleasant, bullying, nasty person in their life. Narcissism can only be diagnosed by a psychiatrist/psychologist.

I didn’t say they were bad. I said ‘it tells me at least as much about the person using it as it does about the subject of their complaint.’ Among other things, if someone uses the word ‘narcissist’ in the absence of a proper diagnosis, it shows they may be responding to behaviours by labelling them and preserving the memory of them in a fixed form. It may imply they are focused on the bad effects on themselves. I’m no psychologist, but I’m pretty sure how people process and talk about trauma tells you important things about them.

Good!

It's gone now.

No Maw I spotted it too. I should have challenged it but I've learnt that challenging those who like to use these terms so flippantly become very defensive when challenged.

MawB

Callistemon

I was shocked to see that one poster used the word cretin to describe people they disliked the other day
You’re kidding?
No, I don’t think you are.

No, I'm not kidding, MawB.

I can't remember which thread it was but I think it was describing the RF.

Missfoodlove you experienced what no child should have to experience and it must have been horrendous. I am sorry you went through that; I can't change it but I hope you've had help to come to terms with it now.

However, it's not up to me to diagnose your mother as I'm not a qualified psychiatrist, so I hope you understand.

I totally disagree that the person complaining about someone they diagnose as a narcissist must also be bad.
On the other hand, it does annoy me that people use the term narcissist for an unpleasant, bullying, nasty person in their life. Narcissism can only be diagnosed by a psychiatrist/psychologist.

Callistemon

I was shocked to see that one poster used the word cretin to describe people they disliked the other day
You’re kidding?
No, I don’t think you are.

I was in a relationship with someone until the day I freed myself. I was able to free myself because one day, after a particularly unpleasant weekend, I did a search online for the term “verbal abuse”, which led me to “emotional abuse” and that led me to undertaking a LOT of independent research into NPD. I felt like a whole world of understanding had suddenly opened up on front of me, a true lightbulb moment. It gave me the strength to leave. I hasten to add this nearly 15 years ago. I am in a much MUCH better place now.

I didn’t tell anyone about this (or even the relationship) because yes the term is bandied around far too often and can easily be misused. Once you have experience of a true narcissist you will understand, but until then you can’t possibly.

Geekesse I completely agree with you, thank you for posting this.

Missfoodlove I think we have had different experiences but ultimately very similar. It’s horrendous and I understand. ?

I haven't seen Hazel since lockdown, I hope she's ok!!

I will join you in Pedants' Corner geekesse, although I think it is worse than mere pedantry.

Narcissism is something that must be diagnosed by a medical professional not casually thrown around on forums like these to describe someone who may be nasty and unkind.
The same with Autism, bandied about on here without a shred of evidence by unqualified people.

I was shocked to see that one poster used the word cretin to describe people they disliked the other day.

All sorts ofbags I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the use of “oh he’s on the spectrum”?
Usually when Describing someone a bit abrupt or rude ?

I get a bit out of shape when I hear diagnoses thrown around so casually as it make me wonder why I bothered to continually study for years when all I need to do was get on-line and I could be an instant expert :-)

Throwing around psychological terms seems to be as active now as it ever was :-) I too find it annoying but I remember when "Anal Retentive" was the throw around term.

Back in the 90's I read Christopher Lash's book "The Culture of Narcissism" and thought I hope things never get that bad but ... Sad, very sad.

I agree it does take more than reading about a persons hurts to diagnose another person as having a Narcissistic Personality Disorder or the often used short hand "Narc". Yet it seems to be the "go to" first option far too often.

To be fair for anyone trying to stay safe in difficult relationships researching Narcissism can be helpful and may offer ways to manage situations better.

But the caveat "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing" is often ignored.

Knowing more than we did before can be helpful and the Internet is an amazing resource but the real skill is knowing how and when to use what we learn.

It's not just about learning a new term and throwing it about so I am pleased that you started this post as it has given me an opportunity to air my annoyance too.

Nobody is belittling anyone who has been the victim of genuine narcissistic people. It is the widespread use of the term by unqualified people that belittles your experience.

Absolutely this.
As the OP says, the term is now used to describe anyone that we don't like or just don't get on with and by people who aren't qualified to make any such diagnosis. It seems to be used to add gravitas to their descriptions of others and to absolve themselves of any blame of the situation they're describing.

Missfoodlove

I feel the insinuation is that because I have described my mother as a “narc” then there is something wrong with me.

You didn’t think carefully enough before hitting the keyboard.

There are so many victims and survivors who have strived so hard to hold everything together.

You are belittling a group of people who have been belittled for most of their lives by the person that should love them the most.

Nobody is belittling anyone who has been the victim of genuine narcissistic people. It is the widespread use of the term by unqualified people that belittles your experience.

Good point - it is in pedants corner. I have started giving my partner grief for saying something was an “absolute nightmare” when talking about a crowded car park or a phone call to his insurance company.

I totally agree geekesse too much inappropriate labelling.

I am so sorry you experienced such awful problems Missfoodlove, I understand why you were annoyed by the post. The fact remains though that too many people throw these terms around without any real understanding.

MissFoodLove,

Oh, I thought very carefully before I hit the keyboard.

There are many posts on GN where people use the term to discuss relatives, alive or dead. You were not singled out, and it wasn’t a post of yours which started this train of thinking. Your experience of shocking abuse is not being questioned.

Please note that I posted this under the topic ‘Pedants’ Corner’, not ‘Relationships’ or Estrangement’. It is the use of language I am challenging, not the reality or effect of abuse.

I feel the insinuation is that because I have described my mother as a “narc” then there is something wrong with me.

You didn’t think carefully enough before hitting the keyboard.

There are so many victims and survivors who have strived so hard to hold everything together.

You are belittling a group of people who have been belittled for most of their lives by the person that should love them the most.

“As soon as I see someone using that term about another person, it tells me at least as much about the person using it as it does about the subject of their complaint.”

I find the whole tone of this thread hurtful.

To me it is like the throwing around of “I love you to bits” to someone who is actually just a good mate !