Gender language

LOUISA
I have issued an apology to you on the appropriate thread, perhaps you’d like to read it.
I hope you read my response on this thread and if you did I’m sure you will understand

My lesbian friend uses dyke, queer, butch, and all kinds of terms that I'd be uncomfortable using.
She used to use gay, though, herself, so who knows what is offensive anymore?

BlueBelle

You must do what is comfortable for you Maddy
personally I get really pipped off with some of the ‘overt flouncers’ like Sean in Corrie as an example

Because I grew up believing ‘queer’ was a disrespectful title I still find it hard to use although I know it’s perfectly acceptable to use (why you would want to reclaim something that is really quite derogatory I can’t imagine) LOUISA

Personally I prefer to not have to judge whether someone is gay or not I prefer them just to be ordinary people getting on with ordinary lives why do I need to know someone’s preferred sexuality

Your son and partner sound sane and sensible in their attitude
Maddy

Who said I wanted to reclaim it? I just asked the PP what she found offensive about it.... or are you just making assumptions about me?.... a lot of that going on today isn't there MADDYONE?
.... actually Bluebelle its not a word I use...... 2 of my GDs have both a gay aunt and a gay uncle ( separate relationships) ....at 6 and 3years they don't bat an eyelid and see this as nothing out of the ordinary ...they see them hold hands,kiss...at family gatherings........ surely all gay people are just ordinary people getting on with their lives whether they are camp or not??‍♀️

You must do what is comfortable for you Maddy
personally I get really pipped off with some of the ‘overt flouncers’ like Sean in Corrie as an example

Because I grew up believing ‘queer’ was a disrespectful title I still find it hard to use although I know it’s perfectly acceptable to use (why you would want to reclaim something that is really quite derogatory I can’t imagine) LOUISA

Personally I prefer to not have to judge whether someone is gay or not I prefer them just to be ordinary people getting on with ordinary lives why do I need to know someone’s preferred sexuality

Your son and partner sound sane and sensible in their attitude
Maddy

Thank you for your understanding Doodledog.
It doesn’t matter if some people find it strange that I wouldn’t use the word queer to describe anyone, that’s what I feel, and it’s my son that I’m feeling it about. I haven’t asked him, but I’m fairly certain that he wouldn’t like it either because he’s very traditional. However, the word used to be used in a derogatory way years ago, and it conjures up the feeling in me that somehow using it would be derogatory towards the person it was describing. This is my feeling, I own it, and so it doesn’t matter if others disagree.

The same applies to my son and his partner not appearing to be gay, in other words not camp or particularly flamboyant. They’re not, that’s just how it is. Because of this they are far less likely to be subjected to attacks or abuse when they are out and about. It’s their choice, but they never hold hands or show physical affection when out in public, although they do at home. My son is a barrister and a judge, appearing very camp or flamboyant would do him no favours in court. Obviously all his fellow barristers at his chambers know about him. It’s of no consequence to them, nor to his family, nor to his wide circle of friends, which incidentally includes no other gay people.
I find it sad that others seem a little judgemental. We live this, many of you do not. It is our lived experience.
Thank you for understanding from many of you.

I just wonder who decides which words are acceptable to use and which are not. I have been aware that the term queer, as in Queer Theory, has been deemed acceptable for some time but was not aware that it was acceptable for some to use but not others. Sounds discriminatory to me.

maddyone

I will never use that word. My son is gay. He is married to his long term partner and they have adopted a lovely little boy, our grandson. He is a successful barrister and I am very proud of him. If you saw my son or my son in law outside you would never know they are gay. As I said, I would never use that word, even though I’m aware that it has been reclaimed by some in the gay community.

Very strange comment Maddyone...that if you saw your son...people would never know he is gay?? ... why would that matter?
What do you find offensive about the word Queer?

"Some homosexual men and women may find queer offensive."
I certainly would. being used to the usual meaning of the word.
Also 'gay'. Where did that come from? they don't always look happy.
The first male I fell for was very nice to me but it went no further. His friend told me, "it won't go further - he prefers men.".
So rather than label and categorise, I think in terms of gender preferences. when it comes to close relationships.

There is always a risk of causing offence, the goal posts seem to move all the time.

I heard on the radio from a person of mixed race that he felt the term mixed race was derogatory, he preferred the term combined heritage.

Some homosexual men and women may find queer offensive.

Some gay people are very camp, others not at all. I think that is what maddyone means.

maddyone I find your comment that your son and son in law do not appear to be gay strange. Would it matter if they did? I know lots of gay and trans people and just accept them.

I had a great hairdresser do my hair recently, I'm fairly new to this town so trying out different establishments. I pretty much could tell he was gay right from when he introduced himself, during the course of our conversation he described himself as "Queer" which I always thought was a pre acceptance of homosexuality used in a more intolerant past, and to me has a somewhat pejorative ring about it. However, as others have suggested that word has been been reclaimed, I would prefer gay but of course it's the prerogative of the individual to describe themselves how they wish.

I think that's fair enough, maddyone, and I can understand why you don't like it.

I find the 'reclaiming' thing a bit difficult too, although I understand why it happens.

I will never use that word. My son is gay. He is married to his long term partner and they have adopted a lovely little boy, our grandson. He is a successful barrister and I am very proud of him. If you saw my son or my son in law outside you would never know they are gay. As I said, I would never use that word, even though I’m aware that it has been reclaimed by some in the gay community.

It has been 'reclaimed'. That sometimes happens when a group want to take the sting out of a term that has been used as an insult.

It is often better for those who don't belong to that group to continue not to use it, as sometimes it will cause offence - eg the N word is used in the US by some people of colour, but it is still very much not acceptable for white people to use it - but I think that 'queer' is now considered pretty safe. It doesn't mean just gay, but also includes anyone whose sexuality is not heterosexual. It now seems to include so-called 'gender variations', too.

Fennel
The gay community use the word queer quite a lot.
Only this morning on MN a lesbian used the word in a positive way.