dogs

JaneJudge

As a dog owner I have had more trouble off other dog owners not controlling their dogs than I have had off toddlers or children trying to stroke without asking. Can you imagine being knocked over by a Labrador as an adult? let alone as a small 3 year old a lot of dog owners are idiots. I suspect none of us are as we are posting on this thread and several of us have acknowledged our own dogs have issues and make allowances for that!

Thank you for understanding.

It’s so depressing to see the way that thing have developed with dogs in recent years. My oldest son is still scared of dogs after being nipped by a pack of daschunds that lived next to us when he was a toddler but otherwise, we’ve never had a problem with dogs until the past five years or so when it’s become an epidemic.

All this nonsense, too, about ‘fur babies’ I think it elevates animals to human level - over the years we’ve had a couple of dogs and numerous cats and in no way have any of them been my ‘fur baby’. I love them dearly and take good care of them but put them on the same level as children? Nope.

I’ve had dogs come up to my on lead dog, wagging their tails and looking friendly only for them to suddenly turn round and go for my dogs throat. It’s happened at least twice. That’s why I won’t let another dog near her now. I explained that to someone that had let her dog run up to mine and she just got very angry and said her dog would never hurt another dog. We keep two collars on her now so that more of her throat is protected. It never happened when I had spaniels but sighthound pages are full of people saying other dogs had attacked their lurcher, whippet etc. They do recognise other sighthounds and I sometimes wonder if other dogs regard them as an alien breed.

The last couple of glorious weekends we have gone for walks at a couple of local seaside resorts.
I swear dogs outnumber people, hardly anyone has one dog, they have three or four on those separated leads. The owners often seem oblivious to what they’re doing.
My granddaughter is absolutely terrified of dogs, always has been, and she’s a bag of nerves all day, and my grandson stood in some dogs mess.
I know that there are a lot of really responsible dog owners, but we live in a rural area, and often use footpaths, and if I had a pound for every time a dog owner says ‘He won’t hurt you, he’s only being friendly, he just wants to play’ I’d be a bloody millionaire!

MayBee70

GrannyRose. What should I do when another dog runs up to my on lead dog? I tend to shout a lot since she was attacked but have recently started trying to just talk to the other dog and say words that it may be familiar with like ‘leave it’ or ‘sit’. Unless it looks as if it’s going to attack which, thankfully hasn’t happened recently.

That sounds like a good idea.
Myself, I generally stop and let the dogs sniff each other and then walk on gently encouraging my dog to stay at heal. Fortunately, it is very rare for me to encounter another dog that is aggressive towards mine.
When it's the other way round and it is mine that is off the lead it can be more difficult. I watch the body language of the other person and if I judge they are nervous about meeting mine I call him and put him back on the lead.
Walking a dog requires constant vigilance and I hate to see people with dogs distracted or not paying attention. This is particularly noticeable when they are on the phone.

Smile less. I’m very wary of Pekingese: I’ve only met a couple and they’ve both been nasty. I agree about bad dogs. I’m sure I read that some Rottweilers or Doberman are more aggressive because they have been specifically bred to have that kind of temperament. And good breeders will always factor in good temperament when deciding which dogs to breed from. Also different colour dogs of the same breed have different temperaments. Someone who bred Newfoundland’s told me that in a litter that had two different colours their temperaments would be different. And when I had spaniels I was wary of solid black or golden because they had been inbred to get the colour. Many goldens had to be pts back then because they were vicious. I don’t think it’s the case now. And a good breeder will also look at the temperament of their puppies and match them to the right homes. We were advised to have one of the other puppies when we got our current dog but wanted her particular colour (didn’t want to be reminded of the dog we’d just lost) and she was quite challenging at first. So much work is put into puppies in the first few weeks by good breeders. Ours was used to travelling, having her claws clipped (we had a tutorial on how to do it ourselves): they were handled by her children from birth etc etc Were given a variety of food so the puppy wasn’t picky. I’m sure that people have bought puppies over the past year that haven’t had anywhere near that amount of work put into them or been able to socialise them properly. It’s a perfect storm isn’t it.

I am not convinced about the idea of there bring ' no bad dogs only bad owners' Indeed there are many irresponsible owners ! However some dogs are simply ' bad' ! Those dogs should be put to sleep, no excuses , no second chance .

As a dog owner I have had more trouble off other dog owners not controlling their dogs than I have had off toddlers or children trying to stroke without asking. Can you imagine being knocked over by a Labrador as an adult? let alone as a small 3 year old a lot of dog owners are idiots. I suspect none of us are as we are posting on this thread and several of us have acknowledged our own dogs have issues and make allowances for that!

I agree with you Grannynw except that a fear of dogs isn’t necessarily irrational.
If someone’s been bitten by a dog, or knocked off their bike by one, the fear is a learned response and is rational.
The responsibility lies with the dog owner to recognise & accept that some people aren’t comfortable around dogs and that should be respected.
Just as parents should recognise that if their child frightens or startles a dog, it’s quite rational of the dog to react in defence

I agree Iam that children need to be taught how to behave with dogs. I remember when our boys were little, going to friends houses where the mum's said how wonderful their dogs were, as their own children were sitting in them, pulling their ears and tails.

All I could think was 'that poor dog'.

Our boys were always taught to ask a dog's owner before approaching their pet to give it a stroke.

We took on my mum's and step dad's pekingese. He was the most beautiful little dog but because of my step dad, a vicious little bugger and I was constantly telling eager children not to stroke him because 'he's feeling a little grumpy today'. The chances of him biting were unlikely but it would have been irresponsible of me not to be wary, and it was irresponsible of parents not to keep their children in check.

The “don’t worry it won’t hurt you” type comments are pointless if the person on the receiving end of the dog’s unwanted attention has no understanding of the comment and has an irrational fear of dogs.

I’ve encountered this too often when out walking with my cousin who has severe learning difficulties. He is utterly terrified of dogs and becomes hysterical if one approaches him. We have to avoid park walks because of the amount of dogs running around.

One day we were sitting in an outdoor cafe and a couple had their dog 2 tables away from us. The woman allowed her dog to come closer to our table on the extending lead despite my cousin’s obvious upset. I asked her politely to keep her dog back beside her as he was terrified and got the “but he wouldn’t hurt a fly” response. She did then hold her dog back but was clearly offended that someone didn’t want to interact with her dog.

I love dogs - however there are far too many savage attacks !!! Resulting in serious injury or death. Yes, irresponsible owners are often to blame . My brother had a rescue dog who was always friendly. They took great care of him and he was well trained. As he got older he became bit ' keen' and not so sociable! They were out one day , dog on lead and without warning he lurched at a passer by and bit her arm !!!! Fortunately not a very serious injury but a very frightening experience for the victim . My brother took the dog to the vet the next day and he was put to sleep. My brother was able to contact this lady and tell her what had happened . She was so kind and said euthanasia was not necessary, she was a dog lover! My brother was traumatized by what had happened and could not risk a repeat performance, he was well aware that next time it could be much worse , a child in a bugggy- does' nt bear thinking about!!! I think he made the correct decision.

This is a depressing thread for us all, Iam.
Inconsiderate dog owners and inconsiderate parents are just one example of the self-centred, thoughtless, entitled minority spoiling things for the rest of us.
Other examples which spring to mind are the plague of litter-dropping which now seems endemic in this country and people who think it’s ok to go on public transport in large groups, drinking, shouting and swearing in front of other people.

Children do need training. My placid spaniel was grabbed around the waist by a 3 or 4 year old girl. No warning, we were walking on pavement in a small market town. I heard nothing but suddenly this child was squeezing my spaniel, lying across her body, from her tail. The dog couldn’t see what was happening, she was suddenly grabbed.
I dealt with child and dog whilst looking for the parents. They ambled past, mother smiling ‘I keep telling her not to do that’. I called after their disappearing backs they were lucky my dog hadn’t bitten the child. Talk about totally unconcerned.

This is a depressing thread for dog owners. I share the concerns about the explosion in dog ownership, especially given the impact of lockdown

SueDonim Wed 21-Apr-21 13:04:15
I’m appalled at your post, Grannyrose suggesting that tiny children need to have self-defence training to protect themselves against dogs. Talk about victim-blaming! How about dog owners having complete control over their animals?? Then we’d all be safe!

I wondered if anyone would react like you have.

Children need training in all sorts of ways how to keep themselves safe.

Of course car drivers should always obey the rules, and all adults should be nice to children but we still teach children how to cross the road safely and give them advice on "stranger danger". We would be failing in our duty as parents and grandparents if we did not.

Unfortunately the world is not always a safe place and sometimes bad things happen. Anything that helps our children survive these bad events is surely good.

SueDonim I agree with you on many of your points.
Personally, I am aware of any potential issues when walking my dog's and it's because of that, I've changed routes and times.
I actually challenged one parent who got quite stroppy with me, telling me her little one 'wasn't doing any harm.'
I see your point about very small children but for me it's similar to saying that it's hard for an 18mth old to understand you can't go near a fire...as a parent/carer, you take responsibility for the child in your care and ensure he/she doesn't go near the fire because they will be hurt.
Surely the responsibility lies with both parties.
It's horrible that your GD is scared of dog's because of what happened, I have a friend in a similar predicament, her son is terrified of dog's after a very large dog knocked him of his bike.

Sorry, I disagree. It’s an owner’s responsibility to be aware at all times and to take avoiding action if anyone shows unwanted attention to their dog. It’s very hard for an 18mth old, maybe non-verbal, child to understand that dogs can’t always be approached. Children come before dogs.

Ime, many children nowadays are afraid of dogs because of the problems. My 3yo GD, whose other GP’s have a lovely dog, is now scared of digs, because of being bowled over by an off-lead Labrador whose owner wasn’t even carrying a lead.

SueDonim

I’m appalled at your post, Grannyrose suggesting that tiny children need to have self-defence training to protect themselves against dogs. Talk about victim-blaming! How about dog owners having complete control over their animals?? Then we’d all be safe!

I speak as someone with two GC who’ve recently been attacked by dogs, one in a children’s playground, I myself have had lately had a big dog come at me out of the blue and my pregnancy daughter was also subject to the same treatment. I’ve had dogs myself in the past and like them, but I have never come across this level of misbehaviour before, and quite frankly, I don’t care any longer whether people are good or bad owners, I have no way of knowing which category they fall into, I just want these creatures kept away from me and mine.

I hate to disagree SueDonim but I don't think this post had anything to do with self defence and is actually a very sensible suggestion by Grannyrose that a lot of children do need to be taught how to behave around dog's!

I've stated before that my dog's are well trained, social and kept on leads but the number of times children have ran up to them to pet / stroke / hug them, well I've lost count and I've actually changed my walking pattern to try and avoid this. The number of times a parent / carer has asked if their children can approach my dogs - I can count on one hand.
I've had both since they were pups and while I'm very confident in my control, why should I be on guard because parents don't control and/or teach their children?
I was taught from an early age how to approach a dog and to always ask the owner if I could stroke it.
There are good owners who shouldn't be penalised.

...I do totally agree with the second paragraph though!

I think it was very good advice and I’m going to tell my grandchildren. I don’t think GrannyRose was defending people that don’t control their dogs: just giving the best advice as to what to do if an out of control dog does approach you. From experience, when it happens any preconceived plans tend to go out of the window and it’s easy to start flapping around rather than remaining calm (bit like when there are wasps around!). My speaking to approaching dogs rather than shouting and waving my arms around is helping me as the attacks on my dog have left me a bit ptsd’sh when it happens.

I’m appalled at your post, Grannyrose suggesting that tiny children need to have self-defence training to protect themselves against dogs. Talk about victim-blaming! How about dog owners having complete control over their animals?? Then we’d all be safe!

I speak as someone with two GC who’ve recently been attacked by dogs, one in a children’s playground, I myself have had lately had a big dog come at me out of the blue and my pregnancy daughter was also subject to the same treatment. I’ve had dogs myself in the past and like them, but I have never come across this level of misbehaviour before, and quite frankly, I don’t care any longer whether people are good or bad owners, I have no way of knowing which category they fall into, I just want these creatures kept away from me and mine.

My dog does everything wonderfully in the house or back garden. Even on the beach when there’s no one around she’s pretty good. However, as soon as she sees anything it anybody she has selective deafness. That’s why we’re so careful with her. She did socialisation classes and was fine. But we can’t be sure that she wouldn’t run down a small dog and hurt it because she’s a sighthound. I do sometimes look back to the days when I had spaniels and they had fantastic recall and didn’t take off at 35 mph but I’ve changed to another breed and have had to change my dog walking behaviour.

Iam64 I went to KC dog training many years ago with my first dog. Because of lockdown I have been trying to remember all I learnt to train my new puppy at home. Two things I particularly remember - there are no bad dogs just bad owners who need training as well as the dog. The other was to get control of my wilful lab through food!

We spend most walks now just looking around for other dogs and we carry a metal stick. But my new plan of talking quietly to other dogs does seem to be working. Having said that, when attacks happen they happen in an instant. Several times a dog has approached our dog seemingly in a friendly way, turned to walk away then has spun round and gone for her throat. When people let their dogs off lead they should know exactly what their dogs are up to. In retrospect, our dog walking group (the one I’ve had to leave) goes to public places and lets their dogs run free in a large group. We’ve always kept ours on lead and felt very uncomfortable about the others running free so I’m glad we’re no longer in it.

janeainsworth- ??.
The owners who respond in that way are selfish and clearly have never attended proper training classes. In the past 12 years, my own and any foster dogs have all been to our local dog training group, run under kennel club good citizen award structure. Entering the ‘test’ is up to owners. I put my last two dogs through bronze, silver and gold. We just opened up again so my pup is in the bronze beginner group.
It’s challenging but rewarding as it builds a bond between owner and dog. Recall, loose lead, off lead walk to heel and importantly, teaching to dog never to approach people or other dogs.
I’m a patient person in the main but, my patience is bring sorely tested by incidents like the one you describe. The huge numbers of untrained dogs is making our usual walks stressful. Shouting at the dog owner you met wouldn’t change her behaviour - I fear we will end up with no off lead fun for our dogs.

What should I do when another dog runs up to my on lead dog?
And what should I do when I’m sitting on a bench next to a public footpath drinking coffee out of my flask, and a large dog bounds up, comes within two feet of me and barks very loudly in an intimidating way? And its owner appears 3 minutes later, obliviously chatting to her friend, and when asked to get her dog away responds with ‘He won’t hurt you’ in an indignant tone?