To spay or not to spay?

I knew that this thread would get quite heated. (Oh Lord, what a pun)

I had a friend and colleague who was vehemently anti spaying (dogs).
She gave me loads of literature stating her case when Gracie was a puppy.
I didn’t dare tell her when Gracie had her op.

Couldn’t you simply have said in the first place that you have learned x through research kevincharley? No need for such an unpleasant response.

MayBee70

Germanshepherdsmum

It would be helpful if you could give us your veterinary qualifications Kevincharley.

I haven’t got any links I’m afraid but what he/she has said is correct.

Thanks Maybe70
Nice to know there's at least one person on here that knows their stuff.
(And I'm female!)

Germanshepherdsmum

It would be helpful if you could give us your veterinary qualifications Kevincharley.

You don't need veterinary qualifications to perform research. I have studied dog health, behaviour and training in depth.
Anything else you wish to stir?

SachaMac

Yes I would, years ago I had a lovely little Westie, we never had her spayed, no particular reason, we didn’t want to breed with her, we just never got round to it and she rarely came into season. She ended up with a doggy version of breast cancer and had to have surgery to have the affected line of teats removed. It was a hormonal linked cancer & the vet told us it is much more common in dogs that haven’t been spayed. She had two operations to remove the tumours but sadly it came back & she was very poorly & had to be put to sleep. Since then I have had three male dogs but if I had another bitch I would definitely have her spayed. That’s just my experience, I’m sure others will have different opinions.

We had a similar experience with our dog years ago, she never seemed to come into season so we didn't have her spayed. When she was about 10 she became unwell and had a pv bleed. She had an infection in her womb and had to have an emergency hysterectomy. We've since always had our dogs neutered or spayed.

Yes please do neuter all dogs and cats. Better for them, their health and well being. And yours. Have a neighbour whose so-called beloved pet cat is now on to her fifth litter in two years. She looks terrible. Still not spayed. Last thing that cat or world needs is more kittens. ?

I have a young lab. I’d planned to wait till he was at least 2 before neuture because of the evidence about the need for growth plates etc to mature. I’ve been involved in training groups with 3 trainers, all experienced and all 15-20 years with Guide Dogs, one breeds and shows labs. These three all advised I get my boy castrated after 18 months. They stressed his testosterone driven behaviour would get him into trouble. I’m not a novice handler, they said it wasn’t poor handling that was the issue.
Additionally, we now have people walking on heat bitches, some off lead, in our woodland. My entire male would have needed to be on lead to avoid him following his desires.
Two months on, he’s a much calmer, more responsive lad.

This won’t be early. We asked the vet when it would be the right time. She said not before the first season and to leave it at least 3 months after. I asked the Kennel Club vet who we insured with as well and got the same response.
With our first dog, we were told that the tumours that killed her often developed in unspayed bitches.
I’ve found most comments in here really comforting and understanding of my concerns.

Germanshepherdsmum

It would be helpful if you could give us your veterinary qualifications Kevincharley.

I haven’t got any links I’m afraid but what he/she has said is correct.

It would be helpful if you could give us your veterinary qualifications Kevincharley.

grannyrebel7

My little girl is 5 months now and we're wondering the same thing. I didn't have my previous dog done, but I remember the mess and inconvenience of her seasons. Like you Mollygo I don't like the thought of putting her through an operation though.

Please wait, for all the reasons I've listed above.

Rosina
Early spaying can also lead to early onset arthritis

Rosina

We asked our vet's advice and he said there was no reason that he knew for waiting until the first season was over. We took his advice, and our 6 month old was bright as a button the day after surgery. I'm not sure why one season is ever suggested - can anyone enlighten me?

When animals are growing, the bone growth takes place from a site at the end of the bones called the growth plate. Sex hormones, like estrogen and testosterone, close the growth plates. If a puppy is spayed or neutered before their bones are done growing, the closure of the growth plates is delayed, sometimes by several months. The result of this is that the dog will get a little taller. We also know that dogs that are spayed or neutered, are more prone to tearing the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) in their knees. It is not known if asymmetrical growth plate closure, or other factors, like the tendency to become overweight after spaying or neutering, is the cause of this predisposition to ACL injury. In an ideal world, dogs wouldn’t be spayed or neutered until their skeleton is fully developed.
Hope you're now enlightened.

GrauntyHelen

Definitely spay and there's no need to wait until after 1st season

There is very good reason to wait until after the first season, and beyond.
Taking away the hormones before a dog has chance to mature is not healthy. They need to go through puberty and come out the other side.
The potential damage done to the joints as the growth plates haven't closed and they need oestrogen and testosterone for this to happen.

You've not mentioned the breed or age of your dog.
With larger, heavier dogs it's strongly advised that they're left until they're over 2 years of age. They need time for their joints to strengthen and the growth plates to close. Early spaying can lead to bad skeletal problems in later life.
And all dogs need their hormones until they're mature, at least 18 months.
The trend to spay early is now becoming less popular, thank God, but some vets still seem to advise as young as possible which is just not right for the dogs.
Consider keyhole surgery when your dog is old enough. Less invasive surgery, less recovery time therefore much better for the dog.

I have 2 rescued Westies. Both females and both have been Spayed. The older one had been a breeding dog and was spayed shortly after the first season she had after I got her. The younger one had been spayed before she came to me. Never regretted any of it.

Hetty58 No you do let them out to roam free but what do you do when out walking a dalmatien and all the local dogs know. She could also jump high garden fences.

Which comments are ridiculous Hetty? Other than your own. A cultural thing? Doing your best for your pet and to prevent the birth of yet more unwanted animals?

There are some ridiculous comments on here. As I said, it's a cultural thing in the UK. There are arguments for and against, so I took advice from my vet.

He sees a lot of disability and shortened lives, caused by early neutering.

Cats that are free roaming are, of course, quite another matter. Nobody here allows their dogs out to mate and reproduce - do they?

Yes. Only last week our local FB page was highlighting dogs howling at a house where tge dog was in season. The dogs had picked up the scent from the bottom of a golf course and run through a woodland park to reach the house. Spaying not only saves you from some problems but others too.

My vet didn’t want to spay our Labrador until she had her first season at about 11 months. This is apparently the advice for larger dogs who take longer to develop. My first lab was done at 6 months and was nearly 14 when she died. She always seemed like a puppy and I’ve often wondered if she was spayed too early. I can see the difference with our latest lab.

We have enough people not bothering to neuter their pets now, the last thing we need is more people being discouraged.

A word in support of GSM’s outrage that neutering should be made illegal. Very few people neuter for convenience, it’s part of responsible pet ownership.

In response to Hetty58 I have had 4 dogs, 2 male and 2 female. All have lived long healthy lives well in to their teens, and 3 were Golden Retrievers. All were spayed/neutered………

We all feel guilt Maybee. We learn more with each one and, as you say, we didn't have the internet to guide us back in the day.