To spay or not to spay?

This won’t be early. We asked the vet when it would be the right time. She said not before the first season and to leave it at least 3 months after. I asked the Kennel Club vet who we insured with as well and got the same response.
With our first dog, we were told that the tumours that killed her often developed in unspayed bitches.
I’ve found most comments in here really comforting and understanding of my concerns.

I have a young lab. I’d planned to wait till he was at least 2 before neuture because of the evidence about the need for growth plates etc to mature. I’ve been involved in training groups with 3 trainers, all experienced and all 15-20 years with Guide Dogs, one breeds and shows labs. These three all advised I get my boy castrated after 18 months. They stressed his testosterone driven behaviour would get him into trouble. I’m not a novice handler, they said it wasn’t poor handling that was the issue.
Additionally, we now have people walking on heat bitches, some off lead, in our woodland. My entire male would have needed to be on lead to avoid him following his desires.
Two months on, he’s a much calmer, more responsive lad.

Yes please do neuter all dogs and cats. Better for them, their health and well being. And yours. Have a neighbour whose so-called beloved pet cat is now on to her fifth litter in two years. She looks terrible. Still not spayed. Last thing that cat or world needs is more kittens. ?

SachaMac

Yes I would, years ago I had a lovely little Westie, we never had her spayed, no particular reason, we didn’t want to breed with her, we just never got round to it and she rarely came into season. She ended up with a doggy version of breast cancer and had to have surgery to have the affected line of teats removed. It was a hormonal linked cancer & the vet told us it is much more common in dogs that haven’t been spayed. She had two operations to remove the tumours but sadly it came back & she was very poorly & had to be put to sleep. Since then I have had three male dogs but if I had another bitch I would definitely have her spayed. That’s just my experience, I’m sure others will have different opinions.

We had a similar experience with our dog years ago, she never seemed to come into season so we didn't have her spayed. When she was about 10 she became unwell and had a pv bleed. She had an infection in her womb and had to have an emergency hysterectomy. We've since always had our dogs neutered or spayed.

Germanshepherdsmum

It would be helpful if you could give us your veterinary qualifications Kevincharley.

You don't need veterinary qualifications to perform research. I have studied dog health, behaviour and training in depth.
Anything else you wish to stir?

MayBee70

Germanshepherdsmum

It would be helpful if you could give us your veterinary qualifications Kevincharley.

I haven’t got any links I’m afraid but what he/she has said is correct.

Thanks Maybe70
Nice to know there's at least one person on here that knows their stuff.
(And I'm female!)

Couldn’t you simply have said in the first place that you have learned x through research kevincharley? No need for such an unpleasant response.

I knew that this thread would get quite heated. (Oh Lord, what a pun)

I had a friend and colleague who was vehemently anti spaying (dogs).
She gave me loads of literature stating her case when Gracie was a puppy.
I didn’t dare tell her when Gracie had her op.

I've only had one dog spayed in my lifetime and have always owned dogs. This was a border collie who would climb a 12ft wall to get out. After 4 litters and 3 lots of morning after treatment we had no choice but to get her spayed. She was about 6 at the time and it went OK.
Apart from rescue dogs who were spayed before we had them no others were spayed as its an unnecessary operation that can cause urinary incontinence.
Also my MIL had a small kitten castrated which died a week later due to a blood clot as a direct result of the surgery. Surgery comes with a risk in animals and people. Early spaying or neutering can cause early onset arthritis and joint problems. No animal should be neutered before 2 years of age in my opinion.
If you can't keep a bitch in then that's a different matter. I totally disagree with unnecessary surgery, especially before the animal had finished growing.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

FannyCornforth

I knew that this thread would get quite heated. (Oh Lord, what a pun)

I had a friend and colleague who was vehemently anti spaying (dogs).
She gave me loads of literature stating her case when Gracie was a puppy.
I didn’t dare tell her when Gracie had her op.

lol

Kevin I didn’t, honestly.
She quite startled with me with how strongly she felt about it.

I’m trying to remember the name of the breed of dogs that she had.
Very large, long haired, black and white.
Some sort of sheep dog, maybe?

I don’t think I’ll share when ours has had her op. My research, (although admittedly only with my own and other family dogs) showed me that not spaying can lead to health problems, tumours and even early death. Research is like statistics. It can find and prove anything you want it to prove.

I haven’t read the full thread Molly, so forgive me if you’ve already said; but what type of dog do you have?

SachaMac exactly the same happened to our dog Molly...and the vet said the same as yours did..

Unrelated conversation but someone on Facebook has said in 50 years of having dogs they’ve only ever had one case of pyometra. It made me wonder if dogs that have a couple of litters ( which is the most a reputable breeder will allow) have a reduced risk of pyometra and that it’s having seasons but no pregnancies that increases the risk of infection.

There are some ridiculous comments on here; yours being one of them Hetty58

Hetty58 simply backs up my point that you can find ‘advice/research/statistics that suits your purpose.
Some of her comments are ridiculous though.

If she's a monel, definitely spay, the world has more than enough monel.
Is she's pedigree and you're not a registered breeder, the same applies, but if you're registered as a breeder with the Kennel Club you might want to keep your options open.

Definitely desex your dog and cat.

Requirement where I live unless you are a registered breeder.

Too many unwanted litters already.

I've had 2 dogs both desexed at 4 - 6 months old. No problems whatsoever.

Some people do neuter for convenience only. Friend sold a litter of pedigree puppies recently and was told by 2 of the owners they "would be spayed ASAP as they couldn't cope with all that mess twice a year"

dazzle, I’d rather that than owners with no experience who breed to exploit their bitch by making money
The cocker spaniel face book groups have many posts from hobby breeders with no understanding of anything, put their bitch with any dog to charge thousands - no five year health pedigree etc

sazz1

Some people do neuter for convenience only. Friend sold a litter of pedigree puppies recently and was told by 2 of the owners they "would be spayed ASAP as they couldn't cope with all that mess twice a year"

Among other reasons, not wanting the mess of dog being in heat seems reasonable to me.

My previous dogs all had seasons that weren’t very messy so it was a bit of an eye opener when my current dog had her first proper season. She bled very heavily for ages and her teats were swollen for weeks afterwards. Also many dogs are quite miserable for the duration of their season. There’s also the added problem of phantom pregnancies which are very distressing for them. They can also have silent seasons where you don’t realise the dog is on heat which could result in an unwanted pregnancy.

I would spay a bitch, yes - but I would prefer to wait until 2 years old, depending on size of dog, and DEFINITELY not before first season - they need those hormones to develop properly.

(I wouldn't, however, castrate a dog unless there was medical need)