More children need to be taken into care?

They do indeed need to be rescued from their terrible home circumstances and we need to rethink the emphasis on the rights of the parents - but, as you say, the care system into which they go is underfunded and will continue to be second class until some more money is sent that way.

I don't think poverty should be a reason for taking children into care.

But any sign of abuse should be acted on immediately.

But they MUST get the care right!

It is very worrying all round. Who could face another baby P case?

I don't think funding is everything. Regular checks on children's homes, and listening to the children, is what's needed.

More loving foster homes are needed, especially for older children. I have a foster-niece who became a part of our family about 12 years ago and simply stayed. My sister and BIL are 'mum and dad' and they would have adopted her, had her grandmother agreed to it. She lives independently now, but is often to be found staying over for a few days, and is regarded as 'little sis' by her older brothers, my sister's own children. A very happy outcome

That is the ideal when.

Are these politicians trying to influence policy based on a few conversations or is there some clear research-based evidence to draw on?

You are right * nanadog* we are failing the children already in the system and I can see no rational argument for bringing even more of them into it. If I had my way I would take social work back to its roots and stop assessing families to death while offering no solutions. I would get social workers off computers and back into the communities they should be serving, and once again train them to work with people to improve their own and their children's lives. I would stop the overuse of unqualified staff, overemphasis on targets, and abolish the business model in social care. There are some families where I would adopt a zero tolerance approach; specifically those where parents are drug users as I have seen the damage caused to children by the over-optimistic approach so often adopted by professionals. These are children who should be removed unless parents can demonstrate a real commitment to stopping their drug use.

I don't expect any of my ideas to be taken up anytime soon. Far easier to come out with soundbites and meaningless targets.

I don't pretend to know the answer to this but I can say that I was disgusted at the antic's of a couple at the bus stop last week they had a baby boy no more than 18mths old out on a most cold and wet day with no coat or gloves on him,he was not clean and it was not just top dirt they shouted and swore at this baby whilst eating chips and smoking the child was blue with cold,if there had been just one parent I would have said something but you just can't take the risk with two of them and yes I do feel guilty and ashamed for not asking if everything was ok with that baby.

You're singing my song nightowl!

Glamma similar thing happened to me. I was going out a few weeks back and passed a house where a young (yobby looking) bloke was waiting for the door to be opened. He had a child of about 2 with him. They had obviously just arrived at the house by bicycle. The child had nothing on except for a nappy. Bare chest, bare feet. It was a cold, damp morning. I didn't know what to do, and I did nothing. I hope the child was being left for the day with someone who cared about him.

nightowl spot on.
glamma and jo it's hard not knowing what to do for the best.

If you see a neglected or abused child you don't know, and are worried because they are unsafe, not dressed for freezing cold weather, being shouted at and generally being badly treated and so on, and cannot see the problem being sorted out, you can phone the NSPCC Helpline or Social Services, and give as much detail as possible. They will investigate if they can find out where the child is. If the concern is immediate/an emergency, dial 999. It's better if you can stay around to show the police officer where the child is. You won't be told the outcome, as it is confidential.

when we keep singing but no-one's listening

glamma and jo it is hard to know what to do and I'm sure many of us have felt unable to challenge people in similar circumstances. You can always phone children's services afterwards and they will look into things if you have an address. They would much rather look into these things and find nothing than miss something serious.

Welcome back nanadog

Oops crossed posts when

Funding is certainly a huge problem here. Social workers have such big caseloads that they do not have enough time to make the necessary checks/visits and do their jobs properly.

The qualiity of the SWs is also an issue - training and supervision is expensive, and there are far too many untrained "SWs" floating about - but they are of course cheaper to employ.

Prevention is the key and this is hugely expensive - parenting centres and support in the home for failing parents are big budget items, but they are the key to the future. Parents who cannot cope have often been badly parented themselves; getting in there and helping them learn to be better parents might help to unblock the cycle. and prevent the children needing to be in the highly imperfect care systen in the first place. And maybe the children in their turn might become good parents.

Tackling this problem properly costs mega-bucks that the services simply do not have at present.

Wonderful organisations like Home Start, who train and support volunteers to go into homes (referred by SSD) and be alongside the mum and dad befriending them and helping them to understand what good parenting is about have just had their fiunding cut - very short-sighted policy. They are in there doing what is needed that the SWs cannot do. We need more of this, not less.

Our local family support centre has closed in the last year - they were wonderful. Based in a "sink" housing estate they were there to help downtrodden mums regain their self-respect; to teach good parenting by example within the centre. They were doing a brilliant job - so they got the chop of course!

It is so short-sighted isn't it Mishap? Compared to the cost of keeping a child in the care system this would be money so well spent.

I'm going to keep an eye on the house. Go out at the same time in the mornings. And be braver more sensible if I see anything like again.

Jingle

jings We all need to be more aware.

This seems to be a retrograde step -didn't we used to take more children into care and it didn't work? A friend who was a social worker says she always tried to work with the parents and support them and that she regarded taking children into care as a failure for everyone (herself included).

if you have one or tow children then its f9..
but more children makes mother creze...
mother need to be more aware..
so in this time mother should try to keep her mind cool with some songs and some intartening things like tv and other

Mishap* You cannot legally call yourself a social worker now without being qualified and registered with the appropriate body! That has been essential now for several years. I have happily forgotten what the organisation is called during the last two years of retirement ! Yippee!

I think there is a big problem in always seeing taking childen into care as a personal failure. I think that attitude may cloud objective thinking about how much longer one should go on trying to redeem a totally dysfunctional family. At some point one has to say enough is enough!

I remember those times trisher and the feeling that taking a child into care was a sign of failure. Legal proceedings have risen dramatically and social workers seem to spend all their time either preparing court reports or attending court. Meanwhile they have no time to do preventive work so the whole thing is quite circular. I agree with nellie that sometimes one has to say 'enough is enough' but I think we have gone too far in the other direction.