how can I help my son, and should I try?

Thank you all. It's really helped to hear from you all. I've also been away, which has helped give me some perspective.

Sorry, but it sounds like exploitation to me. Is there a promise of a job at the end of this apprenticeship? Does he belong to a union?

Yes bags, some of the long days I did and those the younger generation are doing includes travel time. I only did 12 miles into the city, but it took an hour. The same journey takes longer now. Many people travel much further to work now than in the past. It makes for very long days and takes a big chunk out of the wages being earned.
I agree with all the comments about life - work balance. We seem to go one step forward, 3 back, and these difficult economic times mean people will go where the work is.

maisiegreen - sincere apologies for posting at 18.27 today on the wrong thread. I don't know how that happened, there was no intention to derail your thread

Dear all, sorry to keep rambling about this, but my son has now worked both days of the weekend. I think he is doing the work that others should be doing, but he hasn't got the authority to make them do (overtime is only time and a quarter, so not much of an incentive). I hear all the good advice coming my way, but I'm sitting here crying. Surely he can't keep this up?
I'm aware that this makes me sound totally feeble, which I'm not, by the way, and I've never been overprotective. Plus I don't lay all this emotion on him.
He will have a job at the end (if he survives) but is not a member of a union.

I think you need to step back a bit from this. My 21 year old son was working a 50 hour week In a pub and often not getting back till 3am and then a shift the next day. Sadly it's often how it is nowadays. What's the alternative? No job? that's often the only alternative available. I know you love him and obviously we all hate to see our kids suffer no matter what age they are but just keep doing what you can, bit of cooking, washing etc but other than that if he sees you crying he may well get very angry at you. He is a grown man doing what he believes is the best he can do at the moment. Be careful you don't suffocate him. Young people are strong and fit and hopefully these long hours won't last forever. Try and keep yourself busy so you don't dwell on it too much. If he is putting in long hours then it may well be noticed and that might help him to secure long term employment at the firm. Our kids grow up and as parents we can't always fix it for them and make it ok. He might be finding it quite stressful to be living with his parents again so be careful not to smother him as I doubt it will go down well with him. He will be fine I'm sure. Sadly, as mums, we never stop worrying about our offspring.

I am concerned that you are "sitting crying" - please try and step back from this. He is doing what he has to do at this stage of his life - and please do not forget he is younger and fitter than you! Is he complaining about it? Is he asking for your advice as to how to change the situation? Is he enjoying the challenge?

He probably can keep this up if he is sufficiently motivated, so go have a cup of tea and try and relax.

There is a difference between expressing a concern about a situation that you do not approve of, and being in tears over it.

When I look back to see what I did when I first started working I can't believe I did it. I too left home at about 6:30 to catch 3 buses to work and did not get home until about 7:00. I was married and so came home to prepare supper for DH who was doing similar hours. He was often at the laundrette with the weekly was or collecting the pools for extra money. We both had work to do in the evenings too (marking and preparation) . We at least had the benefit of a school holiday to look forward to when we did other work that was slightly less demanding!

maisiegreen I am sure my mum worried about me but I survived! If he has a freezer cook him some freezable meals and go and have your holiday

Dear maisiegreen, don't apologize for rambling on, and you are not feeble, just a concerned mum. However, I do think you need to take a deep breath, tell yourself 'this too shall pass' and be glad your son is working hard towards his future.

My son in law is in the US navy and his shifts are 12hours long. When we were there recently he was on the night shift. Went off to work while we were enjoying the evening and returned when we were having breakfast.

My DS (aged 22) is a chef and regularly works a 16 hour day. It is tough to see him come in at midnight, exhausted, and then hear him leave again early the following morning, but we have to be thankful he is gainfully employed.

Hope you will soon be able to feel a bit more relaxed about your son's situation.

I think, like Mishap, that you need to take a step back.

The apprenticeship is only for another five months and then he will have qualifications and can re-assess what he wants and have more authority and control over his future.
Personally, I think looking to join a union just at present would not be a good idea, it could well be noted on his records and, even if he decides to join one when he is qualified, he would not want to be labelled as a troublemaker just at present.

When I was young I decided not to go to university, instead worked and went to evening class and took exams which was hard. DS also decided not to go to uni straight after school as he wanted to work and travel. He has held down a job, got married and had a child (and another since) as well as attending university part-time and getting his qualifications that way.

There are many youngsters who cannot get a job or an apprenticeship, and many more coming out of university, unable to get jobs and with huge debts.

Have you asked him if he is happy? There is a difference between grumbling about having too much work and being so stressed that he cannot cope. I think you have to be positive for his sake.

Thank you all so much, it's such a help.

maise; I worry about my son ALL the time, even when there's nothing to worry about. Mind you, sometimes he's said something to me about something and I've carried on worrying about it months after he's forgotten he said it. I probably don't worry so much about my daughter because we tend to talk more about things; with my son I fill in all the gaps of what he hasn't said with worryings [does that make sense?]. No point me telling you not to worry when I'm totally incapable of following my own advice .

A footnote ... He got home at 9.30pm last night. But had been at a friend's since mid afternoon! He was knackered, but I guess that if he could do that, he was OK! I think part of the problem is that I am in a limbo period, having moved away from our old house, and waiting forour new one to come through in a different city, so I can't really get involved in anything. Anyway, thanks to all of you, I appreciate your help so much.

Why should someone be labeled a ' troublemaker' because they have joined a union?

yes indeed petra, I almost asked the same question, but decided to clean the kitchen instead. Kitchen cleaned, so I'm back to see if anyone else picked that up

Joining a union is often essential, especially if one is working in a job where there might be litigation, but also to ensure support in cases such as unfair dismissal.

Because people in this country who expect to be treated with decency and respect are now alien to our work culture . A legacy from the 'on your bike' and 'just be grateful that you have a job' years .

I'm with you on that petra. I'm sure many of us are or have been union members without being labelled as troublemakers.

Cont'd! However, maisie, I do think there is some sound advice here. We worry about our children from the day they are born (and before!) and when they are older it is hard not to be able to DO anything, to make it better as it were. We just have to wait and be ready when they need us. Not always easy, though.

Perhaps some people have never had to work in what I all the 'real' world.

Well, I was waiting for that question of course! Having been a union member (and rep before marriage) for years, it was just a bit of advice that an apprentice, hoping for permanent employment after the apprenticeship was finished, would not be best advised to join a union and start rocking the boat about working hours. Even if there were no immediate repercussions from an employer, the employer could decide that there were 'no vacancies, sorry' after the apprenticeship is completed.

Sometimes it is advisable to see the wood through the trees, and not take the first knee-jerk reaction. Just my opinion. Others may differ and that is fair enough.

I don't understand your post at all, Tegan. What do you mean by 'alien to our work culture'?

Our work culture seems to be 'work them hard and grind them into the ground because they're lucky to have a job'. At least, that's how it was with me until I retired and seems to be still with those I know that are working. Unless you happen to work for an underperforming bank in which case you get paid for it.

My daughter's partner trained as a chef with a well known celeb French chef and was doing 16 hour days too many times for his own safety, believing it to be worth the hard work because he felt lucky to get the place. In the early hours after a long shift, he stopped in his car at traffic lights and a few minutes later was jolted awake on the other side of the crossroads. It shook him, falling asleep at the wheel. He was staying at his mum's at the time, having returned from a two year stint in France. She was very worried about seeing him so exhausted and not getting time off, but he was 25 then and she felt it was his choice. He had another three months to go and stuck it out, but then he left that employment, in his words 'before I killed myself.'

He's a union rep now in his restaurant training job, and sees work-life balance in some occupations as eroding further here in the UK, yet in France the workers in the restaurant business and growing numbers in other occupations are asserting their rights to rest, a home life and decent working hours.

I hope it works out for him, Maisie and you don't have this worry much longer.

Oh I see, you were talking about the bosses, not the workers!