how can I help my son, and should I try?

Thanks again to all of you. I think we happened to start our stay during a particularly difficult week for him, and things have calmed down a bit and he seems to be coping OK. It's been a great help to read your responses. (I also must say that I never let him see me upset about it all - not a good idea)

My own feeling is that if these sort of hours are only for a limited period of time - perhaps during the apprenticeship - I would imagine it would not be too much of a problem for a young man. However, if there is an expectation that he will do these very long hours on a permanent basis, I do think it is exploitation.

As others have said, this is probably not that unusual a situation these days, but that doesn't make it right. Apart from being unfair to the people concerned, research has shown that working excessive hours does not improve productivity.

maisiegreen I can understand your concerns - I would be concerned too. If the company is a reputable one, hopefully your son's hard work and willingness to be flexible will not have gone unnoticed and will in time be suitably rewarded.

Re the union suggestion, would an employer necessarily know that an employee had joined a union?

Yes, anno, it is always quite startling to see DC's friends who are now in very responsible jobs (and DC themselves of course), wanting to say "oh, hi so-and-so! " then remembering I should address them formally as I could be meeting them in their professional capacity. Of course, they are all in their 30s now.

He's a very fortunate young man to have an apprenticeship which many others would give their eyeteeth for. However, if he sees you weeping about it, perhaps he will come to feel that he is in some way disadvantaged. Credit where credit is due. He's very young and one day, when he's in a senior position, you'll realise that he had to go through this phase to become a responsible adult. I am often amused to see my DSs' old school friends, who all had to go through a learning stage, and are now dads with good jobs, partners/wives, their own homes and lovely children.

Or what they think we would like to hear!

I have been trying to say that as well .... what does the young man really feel?

Sometimes DC tell us what they would like us to hear!

My thoughts exactly, Soutra (in fact I said as much in my very first post on this thread! ). It seems to have become a discussion about the benefits and advantages of being in a trade union, rather than addressing the actual OP...

So I suppose in answer to second part of the original question ("should I try") I am saying I am not sure itis necessary or indeed desirable to interfere in a grown man's lifestyle unlesss there are clear dangers to health or unless he has asked for guidance.
This is not meant to sound harsh and I wonder how much easier life is when we do not know too much about what our adult children get up to!

maisie said on Monday: "He got home at 9.30pm last night. But had been at a friend's since mid afternoon! He was knackered, but I guess that if he could do that, he was OK!"

So it seems he has friends, and there's been no indication that he has complained at all about his working hours/conditions, although maisie's concerns are understandable.

Have I missed what your son himself feels, maisie? He may in fact be stretched but enjoying the challenge, or feel that whatever the cost at the moment, it will be worthwhile. You also don't say a lot about his social life. Is he perhaps coming home a bit later to give you some space ? as you say you are living with him on a temporary basis. (Or he may be having a swift half with his mates which would be about normal!) Does he have a wide circle of friends/a girlfriend/other interests? Not being nosey but it might help to have a more rounded picture of the whole man before passing any opinion as to whether he needs any help or not!
By the age of 25 DH and I had been married for 3 years, I was teaching, he as a newly qualified chartered accountant was regularly away Mon-Fri on audits and I certainly would have felt totally in control of my own work/life pattern and I am afraid I would not easily have taken my parents' opinions on board!

There you are then maisygreen. Has he got a mentor? I don't know how modern day apprenticeship schemes are run, but from what gagagran and mishap have said, it seems there is guidance available. Would n't hurt to talk to someone.

My nephew is an apprentice and he knows where to get support and advice; he has had reason to make use of this, and his mentor spoke to the firm to sort the problem out.

Surely he has a contract or is there an Apprenticeship Board that should be supporting/controlling apprenticeships? Not sure how they are organised now. If so it wouldn't necessarily mean Union involvement.

The trouble is things stay the same when people are too scared to raise the issue & after they leave they lose the impetus. It needed very brave people in the past to risk everything for the common good. I'm sure some people said that child labour was OK because lots of others were doing it.

I'm also a little irritated when mothers are always told a concern is primarily their problem. Projections & transference are of course possible in any situation but how many times have women been told that when they are worried & no one else wants to do anything about their concern. Usually, in my experience, it's mothers who are more ready to look at themselves or get help, while those who really need to don't.

Perhaps this post started it?

'jinglbellsfrocksSat 12-Apr-14 18:25:27

Sorry, but it sounds like exploitation to me. Is there a promise of a job at the end of this apprenticeship? Does he belong to a union?'

Have I missed something, I haven't seen any posts suggesting this young man should join a union.

Yes, Ana. I think it would not be a good move at the present time.

My point exactly, rosequartz. Why should this particular young man rock the boat now? (Regardless of our own feelings about union membership etc.)

That was always a sore point with me, iam64, but still unsure about an apprentice joining a union, especially as he is so near the end of his apprenticeship.
If he is taken on permanently by this firm perhaps he will then be in a position to suggest changes for working conditions for future apprentices.
I don't mean that he should 'put up and shut up' now, in fact perhaps he could mention to his superior that the hours are taxing.

That is, of course, if he himself is finding it all too much to cope with.

I agree with the concerns expressed about 24 hour availability of many services, and the impact of that on life, particularly for those with caring responsibilities. I have been a union or association member for 36 years and feel disappointed and surprised that so few young people join a union. It rankled when colleagues who refused to join a union/association, then benefitted from the work put in by their union representatives on pay and conditions.

When he's finished his apprenticeship, he'll have more options open to him.

I wouldn't hold my breath, Maisie, the last Tory government did what they intended to do: bring the unions to their knees.
Even though my trade was in printing I have to say that something had to happen to the Newspaper industry.
But as in all things in our country, it's all or nothing.

I agree, but is there a solution? The only thing I can think of is mandatory union membership. I'd like to see that, but won't hold my breath waiting. None of the political parties care about this issue.

I agree with Bags and others who have said that working longer isn't necessarily working smarter.
It seems to have become the norm to work hours that once would have been considered 'unsocial'.
Whenever it is pointed out that 24/7 availability of services is perhaps detrimental to workers' home life and mental health, the standard response seems to be 'you can't turn the clock back'.
Well why not? What is so difficult about recognising the harm that is being done, especially to people with families by both parents working extended hours, and the benefits to people of having increased leisure time?

The first thing to do of course is check out with your son to distinguish what is your issue & what is your sons, though he may deny it even if he were being exploited.
Does he know if there are rules around Apprenticeships to stop exploitation & people being given roles beyond what is reasonable. It doesn't seem appropriate for him to have a managerial role while still an apprentice. My daughter was terribly exploited when training to be a teacher within a school. She was made to supervise PGCE students & take on the role of Head of the Dance Department on top of everything else. She had very poor support & other rules to do with trainees were broken. She 'blew up' in the end.

Hard work is one thing but exploitation (involving the unfair use of power over a trainee who fears to speak out) & cutting costs by adding more roles to a job is quite another, especially when young people with little power or representation are involved. This is also a health & safety issue, both for the current & future health of the person (stress is cumulative) & the ability to do a job safely.

Ah, I see! Thanks!