Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 4

Smileless I'm so glad you are getting to see Mickey and Minnie. If anyone can make a great day it's those two.
I read your letter Celebgran and my heart aches for you too. I think that is a good idea about stopping the gifts and cards. Who knows if the gifts are given and told it's even from you and your DH. My husband like yours is silent and edgy unless I say something. I just don't understand how these children look in the mirror everyday and like what they see. I guess they justify it in their minds. Please know that when your grandchild is older you can then tell the truth that her mother kept her from you. That is the only hope we have with my stepson's boys.

Oh bless him, give him a (((hug))) from me Celeb. I think it is harder for men, they don't find it as easy as we do to talk and often don't have as many people they feel they can confide in.

5.50pm here, just got back from Magic Kingdom;tired but happy.

Thanks lucky legs kind of you to say that I do hope so my husband is very tense and edgy at moment and I think is harder for men do you smileless .?

He broke an expensive vase yesterday and today bottle milk he is so wound up I worry because he doenst offload to friends and forums like me.

Thanks smilless will try not to see it as defeat but I must Just accept I am beaten on this one I tried so damn hard but it came to nothing,

I hope this heralds a new start for you now Celebgran. You have people in your life that love you, that is worth such a lot.

I didn't know that Louisamay and you're right; when people have suffered heart ache and tragedy in their own lives they're often much better equipped when it comes to the suffering of others.

Don't see it as accepting defeat Celebgran but coming to terms with what's happened. When our children walk away, only they can make the decision to come back to us. We are only defeated when we can't accept what's happened and allow our selves to be bought down by their cruelty; when we are unable to re build our lives without them.

There is life without them, not the lives we envisaged, certainly not the lives we dreamed of, the ones we planned in our minds and all of the lovely things we would do with them and our grand children.

We are not defeated, we're just not the parents we used to be to those children who no longer want us and the grandparents we wanted to be to their children who've been taken away.

How lovely, you'll be spending Christmas with your lovely son and we'll be spending it with ours.

I think you are right louisamay. I knew she had been divorced butnot details
Yes I have good friends who been through it and it does make people more understanding I think.

Thanks smiless sorry hope didn't upset people, it is sad story I guess and I would still gives nothing to sort it, but sadly I will accept defeat and we have decided try and protect ourselves from more hurt and rejection .

Yogagirl little one sounds adorable enjoy!

Smileless enjoy last week! You will be looking forward to getting back to pets! Rosie gave me lovely welcome after just one night away! Collar sounds posh! Enjoy relax.

Our son and partner invited us for Xmas again so wil go as great be with him.

I too was touched by Celeb's letter and Bel Mooneys reply. Ms Mooney always seems to give good advice and I think that skill has been gained from her own life experience. As you may know, she was married to Jonathan Dimblby (sp?), who left her after 35 years for an opera singer (who died 3 months later). He moved back home and Bel apparently supported him through his terrible depression, but eventually couldn't take any more and left him. He is now married to a much younger woman (as they do!!) and Bel is now happily remarried. I genuinely believe that only people who have truly been through the mill (like the stalwarts on this forum) can really understand the hurt that people can inflict on their loved ones.

Smileless, have a great week and enjoy every minute.

Your letter really upset me too CelebI don't know why because we've known one another for 3 years and I know your heartbreaking story. You wrote it so well, perhaps it was seeing it in print and then reading her reply which I thought was excellent.

I've read her letters article for years too and agree that she always gives excellent advice with care and compassion. What came across to me in her reply was her shock and confusion that this type of thing happens.for you dear friend.

Little Clara sounds adorable Yogagirl; the way you described her I could just picture her in my mind kicking her little legs in the air, maybe you have a future dancer in the family.

Today is the first day of the last week of our holiday. I miss my 'boys' especially our puppy. We've 'phoned the kennels a couple of times and he's fine. I've bought him a new harness and lead and a little collar with his name in 'diamante' letters. No point in getting one for our other dog as he wouldn't like wearing it.

Enjoy the rest of your Sunday, we're off to Sea World and the Magic Kingdom tomorrow; can't wait.

Thanks maggiemaybe I am not good with links.
It has really upset me. Strangely enough as I have had personal replies from bel mooney but as she said never published, I value her advice followed her letters articles for years, and interested in how her little dog got her through sad times ie divorce. I feel she is a kindred spirit! Like her love of poetry and quotes too.

Good article Celebgran

Thank you Maggiemay for the link.
Glad you enjoyed the Cliff concert Celebgran & thanks for the message
smileless baby Clara does a lot of sleeping & drinking milk but when shes awake and smiling,kicking her little legs about whilst I change her nappy it's wonderful :-) I swear she was watching 'strictly' last night, moving her little legs like she was dancing ;-) She is still very tiny though.
Have a nice Sunday all

No problem, Smileless. I was interested in reading the letter and it seemed silly not to post the link at the same time.

Thank you so much for providing the link Maggiemaybe I'm in Florida at the moment and would have missed it if not for you.

Here's your link, celebgran.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3276730/BEL-MOONEY-daughter-let-grandchildren.html

Ladies more development today's daily mail and bel mooney has printed my letter In full I am No good at links but can be viewed online.

Is very good and her advice excellent she reckons got to protect myself from loving the prodigal daughter too much and stop cards and presents and no response is so hurtful and focus that time and energy on my husband and people who do care !

Is a big spread.

Will PM you yes girl to explain why can't do this, answer thing.

That's a good way of describing it Yogagirl; one dark page along side the page oflove and joy. It's lovely that you're spending so much time with your GD, being a part of her life and watching how she changes from day to day. Give my congratulations to your lovely D and soon to be s.i.l.; enjoy your babysitting. Do you wish she wakes up, just so you can give her a cuddle?

Yes Celeb, do let us know if you reply to your D's ad; here's anotherto help you along. Hope you enjoyed your concert.

Take care everyone.

Good post smileless its 9.15 here, cold damp & miserable :-\
I think of my EstD & GC every single day, miss them so very much, even though I have a new baby granddaughter & lovely ND, it doesn't take away the pain of loss, it's still there the same. Of course it's heartwarming & wonderful to have my beautiful GD in my arms and for those moments I am happy but at the back of my heart there is still pain. It's like two pages in an open book, on one side it's black, cold, a nightmare, then on the other it's sunshine & love, but unfortunately the nice side doesn't take away the bad, it's still there :'(
Baby sat yesterday, whilst my ND went to the hairdressers, they then stayed for lunch & the afternoon, so that was lovely. I'm babysitting again tonight, as it's my ND & her fiancée 9th Ann. from when they first met Aw!
Have you dared to write your reply to the babysitting advert yet Celebgran that would be a little bit of poetic justice for you! Have a little for Dutch courage

As I've said, I no longer seek contact with our ES either in writing or verbally but I would seriously consider replying to an ad they placed looking for a sitter Celeb, as Yogagirl says, you've nothing to lose and there's always the possibility, however small that might be, that your D will reply. I would certainly word it in the way you've suggested Yogagirl; what a good idea.

We're having a great time thanks Yogagirl. The weather couldn't be better but I have found myself thinking about him a lot and he keeps coming into my dreams. Perhaps it's because they married from our place here and when I hear children laughing and splashing around in the other pools, I imagine our little GS doing the same in ours and having the time of his life. It just makes meto think of what they've denied him and all of us.

Since discovering that he blocked our telephone, 3 years ago this 2nd of November on his birthday, I have never initiated contact with him Rhinestone. To be honest, I don't want to listen too or read the crap he comes out with and he doesn't want to face the truth.

When we received his written bile the last time, last summer, 8 pages long, we simply replied telling him we weren't going to respond in detail as clearly he's unwell, that we hoped and prayed he'd receive the help he needed, that we loved him and would always be here for him if he ever wanted or needed us. According to our DS he was furious as we were implying that everything he'd said was untrue and wasn't worthy of a response: precisely.

No doubt your son, like ours, Yogagirl's and Celebs's D's and so many children who've abandoned their parents repeat their lies over and over again like a mantra to themselves to try and justify the unjustifiable. It's quite frightening to know that our once loving children can be infected by those that they've now aligned themselves too and although I believe in my heart this would never have happened if he hadn't married her or someone like her, I also know that he is culpable. I regard his betrayal far worse than her's. We were nothing to her but we were, are and always will be his parents and we were so happy together.

The truth will out in the end, I believe that too Rhinestone and our EC and any who've doubted our honesty and integrity, who believe that there is no smoke without fire, that we reap what we sow and that there are always two sides to every story will be shown the truth too.

There are two sides to our story, one based in truth and the other in lies.

Have a great day everyone with what ever you're doing. It's 9.15am, cloudy but warm; another day in paradise.

SMILELESS2012-I'm glad you are having such a great time in our sunshine state. I'm so looking forward to our trip there in January. That's what I'm concentrating on now. By the way I just found out you can take a behind the scenes Disney tour. It sounds very cool.
I have been meaning to ask you if , when you see your ES have you ever talked to him? Like you our friends are in total shock about both my son and stepson. They tell me how easy going and sweet my ES was when younger. I guess constant exposure to the DIL for you and my X for me has those boys brainwashed.
I am okay but going to the therapist tomorrow. My mom is bipolar and my brother has mental issues so I sometimes wonder if that's my sons problem. Well anyways I'm not crying over him but have to wonder what he tells himself to make this okay. I'm materialistic but his dad drives a Jag? We went off the deep end because three parents died? All I remember doing is spending the first eight years of my retirement caring for them. I cannot make sense of the rubbish that came out of his mouth. Sounds just like the X.
Someday all our children will see the truth. We all have to believe that.

CELEBGRAN I totally agree with Yogagirl about answering that advert for a sitter. That would definitely send a message. What have you got to lose?
LUCKYLEGS My X husband and I married at 21. We were very young and he wasn't abusive until we had children. Here's one for you. Three weeks after giving birth to my son I was changing clothes to go back to school for a second degree . The X was in the same room and told me I looked better with my clothes on than off. Can you imagine. I made a conscious decision to get through school and divorce. It took me seven years taking one class at a time but I did it. Did I mention that he remarried the same time I did , had two more children and is divorced and miserable again?
His son from his second marriage once told me that our son is like he is because of " him" meaning my X. So I guess it doesn't matter that I brought him up and he was a pleasure. It's all a nightmare now.

Morning girls

Celebgran reply to your daughter's advert for a babysitter, say "nannie will babysit as often as you need, I love them & want to take care of them & they will enjoy being with their nannie" or something like that. She may reply and say "yes please mum" wouldn't that be wonderful! If not, then all her friends will see how cruel she is being to her mum and that the alienation is coming from her not you.
smileless hope it's sunny & warm in Florida and that you are having a wonderful time, forgetting all your worries back home
Rhinestone sorry for your horrid situation

It must have been difficult seeing and talking to Tor's old school friend Celebbut strangely comforting too. When you talk with someone who knew you all before this happened and they're shocked and surprised about the estrangement, it goes some way to supporting your assertion that you've done nothing to justify this awful behaviour.

We find that too. Friends who've known us and our boys since they were little more than toddlers, cannot believe what our ES has done. I'm so pleased that seeing more of her friends didn't upset you the way it once would have. It shows that with time we do get stronger and become better at moving forward and getting on with our lives.

Because we live so close to him, we do see our ES from time to time. In the beginning my stomach would be in knots, my heart thumping ten to the dozen. I'd feel sick and my whole body would shake; it was awful. Then when I got home I'd cry because he'd just ignored me like I didn't even exist. Now if I see him I don't experience any of that. Yes it's sad but it's his choice not ours and there's nothing I can do about it. I have a wonderful husband, loving son and d.i.l., good friends and family; so much to be thankful for, and I am. Seeing our GS is the hardest but even that's nothing like as bad as it used to be.

Had a good day here today; plenty of and hot. Went out for lunch and seem to have bought rather a lot considering I wasn't going to buy anything. Saw a plaque and managed to resist the temptation to buy it, it said "Better to have loved and lost then spend the rest of my life living with a psycho"; bet you can guess who sprung to mind.

Love and hugs to you all and an extra special one for your little grand daughter Yogagirl.

Smilless you are a very strong lady! You are completely right, we have found out That Tor is very active I. Volleyball club and social side of it too, she put online Karl her husband looking for babysitter, boy did that hurt!

Still let her get on With it, she has chosen as our son says quote to behave In Such despicable way unquote nothing more we can do.

It unsettled me. Slightly to see on of her best friends at party o. Monday totally unexpected but she chatted a and said things e.g. How can she not think of you on. MOthers day or want to share the children. And pregnancies with you? It helped In Way,

I a. Getting stronger saw another girl friends from her primary and secondary school at pool today with mum and 2 little ones, it didn't upset me like it would have done.

Hurray I am Getting over it!

We off Albert hall tomorrow to see cliff stay overnight. Exciting,

Smileless you lucky lady enjoy sun it cold and wet here![sun]

Rhinestone hope you feeling bit better after that ordeal.

You are totally right smilless my son says Tor forced me. To confront things from past but it wasn't enough she had decided to dump her family anyway.
We have rebuilt our lives and survived no thanks to her profound cruelty.

We should not apologise for things we have t done I agree. I guess in the desperation to try and sort things reality wanes. My dear late father in law used to say you can't have peace at any price.

Hope you and lovely daughter and little one doing well yogagirl.

How terrible for you Rhinestone. We've been there too, having a difficult but civilised conversation then all of a sudden being faced with a load of abuse, the only difference being that the abuse comes a little later, in writing, never face to face. It's a horrible thing to have to deal with.

The silence is deafening and as you say now you have some idea of what you're dealing with; some not all. Such hostility, anger and resentment for me is an indication of guilt on his part. He's ignored all previous attempts for contact, even ignoring your birthday. He cut you out of his life without a word of explanation and then suddenly, without warning you're there in front of him, his mum, the one who loved and cared for him. He had to face your hurt and bewilderment and after all they say don't they that the best form of defense is attack.

You've been open about your abusive marriage and finding the courage to leave your husband. Clearly, your son had at times a difficult and even traumatic childhood at the hands of his father yet it is his father that he remains in contact with, not you. He is now an adult and needs to be able to talk about the things in his past that continue to trouble him. Giving you the silent treatment is behaving like a sulky petulant child.

I agree that if you feel comfortable doing so, you should continue to send the occasional card and/or text message saying you wish things were different, hope one day they'll change and wish him well; not something I could do. I don't agree that any parent in this situation should accept responsibility and apologise for things they haven't done. How could it ever be possible for a reconciliation to work if these estranged children are led to believe that they have done nothing wrong, that their decision to abandon their parents without a word is acceptable and can be justified by the lies and false accusations that some of them come out with?

The only hope of reconciliation lies in honesty, a real desire to put the past to one side and try and re build the relationship. Accepting responsibility and apologising for things you haven't done is not a solid foundation on which to re build; you might as well attempt to do so on sand.

I'm so sorry that your first contact with him after the silence was so upsetting and hurtful. Many of us have been there and so understand your pain. Take care and stay strong Rhinestone.

With a violent father they probably had to keep their mouth shut. Children are supposed to feel safe wth mom and dad, cannot imagine how it would feel not to have known that. It has got to scar you for the rest of your life. You obviously did not see that side of him when you married, then it's so
difficult to get out, but you showed a lot of courage doing it, now you have it again, and once more you must not take it.No one deserve to be treated this way, just keep sending the cards, the odd text, say you wish thing could be different then just get on with your life, because it has got to come from him and life is too valuable to waste.Him knowing that mom loves him so much, Will one day help him.. Spoil yourself