Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 4

Yogagirl thank you. I do sometimes feel guilty because I think that due to the responsibility of the dcs at home, I cannot do a lot of the "grandmother" things that she expects of me.

But when I think back at the years of free childcare, lifts (I took dd and dgs to A&E one day as they needed to go, bringing both my dcs along while ds1 was sitting in the back seat of the car vomiting into a bucket as he had stomach bug at the time), and babysitting dgs overnight on occasion so she and her dp could go out (the last time this occurred, she called me a bad mother the next day when she ranted at me because I told her dp to stop shouting at my dcs). I was her birth partner when she had dgs, even though I was pregnant with ds1 at the time and having dreadful morning sickness. Drove her to hospital when she thought she was in early labour while I was pregnant and had just had my appendix out (2 days out of hospital and wasn't really supposed to be driving). Stood up for her in hospital and encouraged her to stand her ground when the nurses were dismissing her opinions because she was a young mother. I have always been there for her, so yes, this estrangement does hurt. We were so close - it was just the two of us from the time she was 2yo until she was 18yo, when she went off to University. But then she had her own life, did she think I wasn't going to have one of my own?

So I do think, as someone else said, that a lot of it is that she is jealous of the time and attention that the younger children take up. It's a shame because they love her to bits and always ask when we can visit her. It's not like I can tell them she doesn't like them.

Sorry, bit of a rant. <sigh>

Rosy so sorry that you've been let down by family, especially when you've been ill. You'd think that the birth of a grandchild would make families grow closer together, not create rifts. It's frustrating.

RosyWelcome
Sorry to hear you spent Xmas and NY alone, hope you were ok, and enjoyed your own company, I live on my own, with my little dog and enjoy an evening in by myself, I really do, but then my work takes me out most evenings, so my night out is a night in

Heaven You have done over and above for your now estD, you have enough on your plate, your EstD is an adult with a child of her own, so knows how hard it is to be a single mum, as you are, but tougher for you with your C disabilities, you just couldn't do it all, so it was time for her to take responsibilities for herself, so don't let her give you a guilt trip! I too did lots for my now estD, but they seem to forget all that we did for them, don't they

Smileless It's not Friday, but under the circumstances you can have some Happy Birthday to your dear grandson!

Oh dear Rhinestone you are gong through it, hope you get away on holiday ok, you so need it Yes, I think our parents were far stricter with us, my mother was very gentle and kind but my father was very strict! Is that our problem now a days, have we been too gentle and kind

Name change to Rosy. Worried about being "outed".

Hello everyone,

Well, having survived Christmas and New Year alone, I now feel completely lost. Everything has changed in the space of a few weeks. The family dynamics I had are now shattered, all at the behest of a daughter-in-law, for reasons known only to herself.

My other daughter-in-law is quite brusque by nature, but we get along fine when we are together. She is quite open about not wanting a close relationship. This means that I don't see a great deal of my other two granddaughters....nine and two...as they live a long distance from me, and both she and my son have stressful careers. I am welcome to visit any time I want to, but unfortunately that isn't so easy for me now.

It occurred to me today though, that when I was seriously ill in hospital for three months with septicaemia, I didn't get so much as a text message or get well card from either of them. My sons were there for me as always, so I never really noticed. At first I was too ill, then later when the infection cleared, too busy learning to walk again following spinal surgery. The writing was on the wall, and I missed it obviously. Both my younger granddaughters were born around the time I finally came home, so naturally I expected things to change. Just not to the extent they have.

Reading the very many similar stories of estrangement has completely shocked me. It almost seems like there is a script that is followed, to make sure that grandparents know their place. You don't need to have actually done anything except been the best mother you could be to their husband/wife. I'm still learning to get my head around it, just thankful that nothing has changed with my boys.....although that's not quite true, because obviously I see much less of them now. They both married quite late, having put their careers - and travelling the world - first.

Safe journey home Smileless, and enjoy your holiday Rhinestone.

for all.x.

Morning Girls

Even though I do the same thing Smileless re: gifts bags, cards etc. reading your account really brought a lump to my throat . You really sound like you are having a fab time out there in Oz and your d.i.l sounds lovely, yes treasure those memories and bring them out when you are feeling blue.

Rhinestone so sorry about your mum, if you can get her into hospital before you leave for Florida, she will be ok with them, see if you can arrange that
Posting but still to read all the posts after R work calls

Smileless*is correct. We should NOT have to walk on eggshells with our children. I have been trying to wrap my head around what happened to this generation that said its okay to ignore your parents and disrespect them by being mad and never having to tell them why. It's not how I brought up my children or how I was brought up. We always talked things out and came to some sort of resolution. Were we not as strict as our parents? Has society said its okay to treat your parents like the casual acquaintance who annoys you so you discard them?
What the heck happened? My DD and I have had differences but we talk them out and resolve them. Did we protect our children too much that whenever there is a criticism they have to run away because they can't handle it? And have they no conscience?
Here I am with a mother who is abusive when in her manic stage, who has screamed out in the middle of my street, who shoved me in front of the police as they were trying to take her to the hospital, and I still care for her and feel guilty going on a vacation. And our children don't feel guilty for holding our grandchildren hostage.
And Heavenknows surely your daughter could be more empathetic towards your plight with your children. It's all about what is good for them and what we can do to alleviate their hardships instead of the other way around.
Okay. I feel better now. I got it off my chest. I cannot wait to get to the ocean and just do nothing for anyone but myself.

DS and lovely d.i.l. have 2 dogs, quite large the bitch is just over a year old and the dog nearly 8 months, so still a puppy although you wouldn't think that to look at him.

They both got out this morning and he's a little bugger, very well behaved in a confined setting but extremely stubborn when he's outside and off the lead. True to form, he wouldn't come when DS called him and ended up being chased all over the place. He's a bit of a drama queen (the dog not DS) and from time to time DS gets a little heavy handed. He did this morning to the point that I said to DS quietly yet firmly "don't ... don't".

Now I realise I'm referring to their pet, and not their child and if it had been with our GC who was of an age to understand what grandma was saying, and had I felt sufficiently strongly enough about the situation to comment, I would of course have done so out of ear shot of the child.

The point I'm trying to make is this is how our relationships with our adult children should be. Minutes later he came up, kissed me on the cheek and apologised saying he knew that incident would have made me uncomfortable; I also apologised saying I shouldn't have said anything.

A few days ago there was a very uncomfortable altercation between DS and lovely d.i.l., which she'd instigated. We didn't see her for the rest of the evening but the following morning she came to me and apologised for making us feel uncomfortable. I told her not to worry, these things happen and we've all done it.

So often on GN there are posts from GM's who feel as if they're walking on egg shells and unable to voice their opinion in case their S's, D's, si.l.'s or d.i.l.'s are offended and take offence; there's one on the go at the moment, but our relationships with our adult children and their partners shouldn't be like that.

I'd never offered an opinion about our GC to ES or his wife; she never asked and when he did, out of ear shot, that was the only time one was forthcoming. Considering we are now estranged from them when incidents like the ones I've just mentioned never took place, I can only imagine what would have ensued if they had.

Dear GS is 4 today. Happy birthday darling boy. My heart is full of love for you and will be, always.

Heavenknows I think that hits nail on need my ed expected us to run Ron d drive 80 mile round trip to see her and little one and please believe me we loved to but oh gosh if we asked her to come to us always some excuse, even when dh hurt his back she lied about puncture then found she had visited friend. Maybe we do well remember the reality of when tor was in our life wasnt all fun.

So tired tonight relied dr appt as feeling. Yuck still and poor husband treated all carpets today was unable to speak to vet til after 4 not happy about that as damn receptionist forgot give us eye,drops,yet charged us so had drive over in icy fog tonight. Tried get. Earl afterwards first place heating gone wrong, 2nd pub not coking chef off, ?Third time lucky so drained now.
Done no packing for weekend Rosie fleas caused lot work this week !
Managed rebook hospital check and also got have another,cystoscopy helpful lady booked it at local hospital for me 21st Jan was was on 20th but have knee assessment that day, Tor birthday too.??

Rhinestone - interesting you say that about the babysitting. One of the first times I noticed big issues in our relationship was when I had separated from my husband, and I had to tell dd that I could no longer pick up dgs after school. I gave her a month's notice to find someone else, but I had 2 children that went to 2 separate schools and was suddenly having to pick both of them up at the same time, and the stress was incredible. I couldn't then pick up dgs as well and get there in a timely manner. We'd already bumped heads over her insistence that he not be allowed to watch television or play video games afterschool at my house. Both mine were allowed - so she initially expected me to tell both my dcs that they couldn't because dgs was there and he wasn't allowed. Then when I told her that wasn't happening, she said that she expected me to make sure dgs didn't. I told her I wasn't putting him in a separate room from everyone to keep him away from the television or video games. I basically reminded her that I was doing her a favour doing his after school care for free, and that I was not going to be putting a bunch of rules in place that caused problems in my own household. My house, my rules, basically. I pointed out that if she wanted him to go "no tv, no video games" then perhaps she should find "paid childcare services instead." Ironically, she decided it wasn't that huge a deal (grudgingly).

But yes, she was irate that I had to stop childcare altogether. Yep, so sorry my marriage imploding and dealing with 2 disabled children on my own is infringing on you, kiddo. I don't think she's ever forgiven that. I provided 3 years of free childcare for her the first 3 years of dgs's life as she lived with us, and my then dh (but now ex) and I reorganised our entire work schedules to make sure one of us was home to provide childcare so she could continue attending full time university and then working. How quickly they forget.

I do get the vibe that she doesn't think I do "enough" for her. Unfortunately, just like I have accepted that she has her own life, she needs to accept that I have my own life as well.

Oh dear Rhinestone, I hope this business with your mum doesn't prevent you from going on holiday as you've both been looking forward to it for so long and certainly deserve it; fingers crosses for you.

We originally invested in a house for ES before he met her Celeb and then allowed that money to be transferred into the house they're now living in. We did have the investment registered but didn't pay sufficient attention to the detail of the document; instead of it stating that the money be re paid on demand it states when the property is sold. So, if they never move we'll never get the money back. We'd wanted everything to be above board and as we had such a good relationship with him at the time, never anticipated any problems.

Mr. S. and I said from the beginning that we'd never ask for the money unless we actually needed it but there was a gentleman's agreement with my brother that he'd get his investment back when he's 60, so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

I've already got things for our GC's memory boxes Heavenknows; little gifts, birthday and Christmas cards and poems I've written and these will be left to them in our wills. If nothing else they'll know we loved them even though we never met. I've also got copies of all correspondence to demonstrate that we tried to sort things out but to no avail.

Sounds as if your classes are really popular Yogagirl. I think I'm going to struggle when I get back to the gym after more than 3 weeks of very little activity; it's just too hot to do much here.

Went outtasting today and had a lovely lunch at one of the vineyards.
D.i.l. and I went to sit outside, where we've been sitting since we arrived here and there was an enormous huntsman spider. We both screamed and shot insideand DS went outside to try and get rid of it but it disappeared. We ended up in fits of laughter and decided that the two of us could never come to a place like this on our own as we'd never survive.

Mr. S.has just about finished cooking on the old BBQ so I'll leave you all now and catch up again tomorrow. Take care dear friends.

By the way I just found out that what my mom spent is 477.78 in pounds. My American keyboard doesn't have the pound sign

Hi All- We are supposed to leave on Friday for our trip but mom may have to go into the hospital. Who will take he if I'm not here. Part of her disease is she stops seeing her friends and shops all day. I got an alert from the credit card company that she charged up $700 in the last week and $500 of it was yesterday. DH and I ran over there and she had fifteen bags of clothing and goods in her car. She is taking her meds but it's not working week yet. I came home with my head spinning. I tried to pack but I couldn't think straight. I have so much anxiety.
She said she would take the goods back but last year I had to go to court to get her in the hospital so the police could pick her up as she refused to get help. It's a wait and see with her medication.
My DD child is sick so she can't help right now and my brother is mentally ill also and doesn't leave his home.
What to do what to do?
celebgramI'm with you wondering how I gave birth to a child who has ignored me, my mom and his sister and niece and nephew. My ES was such a great and easy child to bring up, so sweet and nice. What happened?But I especially feel sorry for my DH as he doesn't deserve this. I have known my ESS since he was 14 and its thirty years later and I have not seen any problems other than ESS being moody all the time.
Heavenknows I think of what letter I will write to our EGC when they are older too. I will tell them the truth that their parents decided to keep us from them. I really think part of their problem is that we didn't babysit 8 hours a day once a week when Aiden turned three. How could we with three sick parents and two of them dying.
But they have no compassion. It's all about their needs and wants isn't it?
Wow Smilelesswhat a nice thing for your DS and DIL to do. You ARE appreciated.
Take that feeling home with you and think about that on your down days. It won't replace your ES but it may help to know others want and love you.
YogagirlMaybe what we all need is some Yoga classes to relax us. I'm just afraid I wouldn't be able to get off the floor. But glad your classes are filled.

Morning Girls

Celebgran hope you are feeling better today, don't think agua would be a good idea for you with your terrible cold! Yes back in full swing with my classes, all full with waiting list everyone trying to get fit again after Xmas indulgences my first class back was on the 2nd, so didn't stop for long. It does make you feel anger, what our cruel C are putting us through and for no reason and yes you mustn't let this spill out onto others. I just feel a deep sadness all the time, such a tragedy for all! I wouldn't feel so bad if my Laila was with her other grandparents, but she has only her mother [my estD] that is her real family and Jack her half brother, everyone else are stepfamily cruel people.

Smileless So nice to hear what a wonderful time you are having with your NS & D.i.l, I think you may miss your flight back Let's hope your estS sees some lovely pictures of you all on FB maybe

Heaven how sad that we must think about our beloved GC being all grown up before we see them again How old is your GS? Yes we should be able to give our opinions on things and listen to others on things effecting us without someone taking offence! It's always good to listen and then either take from the advice, or not. Like you, I do worry about how my GC is being treated by her stepdad.

Rhinestone hope your hubby is feeling better now and your mother has improved. It's a bit of a double edge sword, the information we can get on FB and the like. Are you on your hols in Florida now?

Have a nice day everyone

Smilelss big hugs as little ones birthday approaches, I know am on repeat mode but there's no need for any of this heartache,
If your Es feels abandoned then maybe a chink of hope there?

Tor wants us to leave her alone there crucial difference,
Just wondered if that's a hopeful sign for you.

?Anyway and watch out for these ???
Going made with emoji s since Steve fixed iPad.???

Me too heaven knows am Dodgy with insects?

Thank you smileless Tor herself used to say how proud she was of me and have card saying how much she was proud of me caring for her grandad she seems forgotten all that ?

Still I wrapped up a d took Rosie for walk after my rest.
Missing dh today course he rang while i was In garage collecting mountain of stuff from drier,

Smilelss I do try be helpful but not as good with words as you.
It is fantastic that you feel the bond is strong as ever with your ns and why would t it be?
I do know too well the worry that having lost one child another will follow.
We mustn't let that become a self fulfilling prophesy, no danger of that with you how marvellous that they chose you extra gifts,

I didn't realise you like us helped provide house,deposit for Es,
We mentioned it via solicitor when it all got nasty and after my arrest for delivering birthday gift to Mollie on her 1st and were told it was a gift.
Mmmm not to upset to keep gifts then,

Mustn't be cynical.

My ns worried me a bit saying I am so angry with Tor that I take it out on others I must try let go of that anger.

Well cups tea now.
Yogagirl is new term in full swing ?
Sadly I wasnt well enough for acquacise today as got get fit to party at weekend away????
.

Smileless - seeing the birds and animals must be amazing! I can't say much about the pink insect keeping you from the door - when I lived in Arizona, we came home to a tarantula on the door, so I had to run next door and get the neighbour's boyfriend to come over and move it. <shudder>

Rhinestone - it's unbelievable the effort they put into being uncooperative and avoid us, isn't it? I'm slowly starting to reach the "it's their loss" point, I really am, after my dd's most recent behaviour.

Interesting to note that dd was happy for me to give dgs a Christmas/birthday gift, but she stated she hadn't "had time" to buy any gifts for her little brothers. Actually she never intended to, nor did she bother. I will continue to get gifts for dgs, and hopefully once he is older, we can have a grandmother/grandson relationship when he gets to be 16yo, as dd is clearly in no way happy to facilitate that - she'll accept him getting gifts, but refuses to allow me to talk to him at all or visit him. I do worry sometimes, because her boyfriend was verbally abusive towards my younger two dcs, and I said (in reaction to this) I hoped he didn't treat dgs that way and she said "when he needs it, yes." She wasn't happy when I told her that wasn't very appropriate behaviour, even though I was referring to how he treated my younger dcs (they were 5 and 8 at the time).

As I said on another thread, she had a habit of asking my opinion, then being cross because my opinion didn't agree with hers, and accuse me of telling her what to do. If you don't want to know, don't ask! I used to ask my parents their opinions on things (still ask my mum even now), and take it into consideration. Doesn't mean I necessarily do what they say - but always good to hear opinions, even if it doesn't agree with yours.

That's what's so important to remember Celeb that the way our EC see us is not the way others do, because that's not who we are. It's taken this holiday to realise that our DS's love for us hasn't been affected by his brother's abandonment.

It's a shame that Tor can't see the caring and supportive posts you put on here and see you that way we all do.

DS and lovely d.i.l. went into the local town today and when they came back they'd bought a bird book for Mr. S., a book for us both with amazing pics of here, Margaret River and a blue opal pendant and bangle for me. We'd already had our Christmas presents from them, and I can't put in to words how I felt when they gave them to us. We've made so many wonderful memories to take home that I know will stay with us always.

It must have been wonderful in Africa Yogagirl. What a lovely thing to say Rhinestone thank you. It is like living in a nightmare isn't it, but unlike bad dreams, this one just goes on and on.

We were entertained by so many pink and gray gala's (they look like parrots) there were too many to count and the noise they made was incredible. Watched 2 kangaroos with their babies for ages this afternoon. Mr. S. is at the BBQ and lovely d.i.l. has just finished making a salad. Happy, happy days.

Apologies for horrendous typing I am ??I'll
Off bed now with paper and coffee.

Enjoy,rest of that fantastic Hol smilelss.

Rhinestone sorry about all stres with your mum.
.

Wow you and smilelss sound so exotic with these talks of foreign parts.

It is cold wet and yuck here.

Yes smilelss hollow victory I don't think anyone is a winner are they over this estrangement fiasco?
my dear son rang last night just quick word I can Feel bit tension in his voice but bless him for ringing I do realise aM Lucky to have a wonderful son.

Dh and I had domestic with me feeling ill bjtmwa red clean up, he wants. E rest, conflict of interests, I a. Bored off skull with resting. Did feel awful last. Night tho. We had more hassle somehow poor little Rosie got infested with fleas, mynfauot think as been using frontline as didn't want change due to her age, (13 in march?) and it does t work now apparently. We were so shocked at extent took her to vets who relieved us of £95?Robbing gits.
Saw nice lady we trust and she was amazed how Rosie was t scratching me too, so had giv her good bath ad. Apply treatment even worse got treat carpets.!?☹
I have been manically washing all her towels, cushion covers, you name it even her coat just what I needed with my damn virus.
Dh gone work today didn't feel well enough take him so cancelled dr appt doubt would give me anything
I did. A aged sleep for. 3 to 7 30 so improvements s d dear husband didn't have get up get me drink. He is marvellous,shame we fall out when under stress.?

Smilelss he would love the birds feathered kind!

Well under orders to rest got husband off withnready break And pack up
I got be well enough to party,this weekend we off to warners with good friends,

Rhinestone is earlier days for you, but I sadly feel all the love, cards, money effort was wasted with Tor I can't believe I gave birth to such a hard unfeeling uncaring individual but I did.

Yes smilelss life way different from our expectations but it is still good it,really is.

I,just have to convince myself Tor opinion of me is. Not shared by my good friends, dear husband and wonderful son.

He is 38 next Monday. Tor will be 35 o. 20th Jan chose card for her but it won't be posted way too painful then silence of 7 years. 1st birthday after she cut us off I posted card and she reported me to police for harassing her.
How bizarre is that ? And I cried so many tears wonder I got anymore to shed. Police were so kind I cried even more. They said it had go before cps to prevent her wasting police time again.?! It was thrown out naturally.

I truly believe one day tor and all our estranged kids will regret their actions but maybe not in our living years.

I'm so sorry Heavenknows It's hard being away from family with little help. But as you know from this thread sometimes family is right there in front of you and they are estranged and of little help. And sometimes we can make friends family. So I hope for you that you can find that good friend.
SmilelessYou sound so happy that it makes me happy too. Does you DS come to visit you?
Well last night my DD sent me a copy of a conversation from my stepdaughter to her cousin on Instagram saying how good it was to see her when she was in town and how they went to a restaurant and on and on. For those just new here I will tell you that my DSD came into town but told us she would only have four days here and the purpose was a memorial for her boyfriend (of over twenty years ) dad's memorial. She didn't want us to come as we didn't know him and she was going to be busy with the lawyer, putting the house up for sale etc. we couldn't understand why she didn't have ten minutes for her dad. It seems she saw her cousin and we can only surmise it was at little Aiden's birthday party which was that same time. And yet she called my DH two weeks after she had been here to say thank you for understanding why I couldn't see you. So it now makes sense why my daughter was not invited to the party. She would know that my stepdaughter was there but didn't have time for her dad. This would never happen with my in laws being alive. Never. Needless to say my poor husband did not need this on top of his ES problems. And she will be here in August but has not told her father anything about it yet.
I feel like Inam in a nightmare.

Sounds wonderful Smileless reminds me of my time in Africa, with all the wild life roaming free and the beautiful birds. When we lived in Victoria Falls, we could feel the spray of the water where we lived and we walked to the Falls many times, the birds in the rain forest were amazing! Enjoy your time in Oz

Morning ladies, although you'll all be in bed. This is the most amazing place. Mr. S. is in his element with all the wonderful birds we can see. A blue wren, so vivid in colour that it looks as if it's been dipped into a bottle of bright blue ink. Two wedge tailed eagles, huge birds of prey not to mention the beautiful green parrots and bee catchers. We saw half a dozen kangaroos yesterday evening, including a mother with a baby and two adults having a punch up. It was like watching a boxing match without the queensbury rules.

Mrs. S., me and lovely d.i.l. were trapped outside this morning as there was an enormous pink winged stick insect just by the door, it must have been 6" long. We didn't want to go in in case it came inside with us but DS saved the day, with the use of two books he managed to 'encourage' it to detach itself and fly away. Of course when we saw it in flight we all said how beautiful it was, much to DS's amusement.

You must be so looking forward to your holiday Rhinestone although you'll be taking your worries about your mum with you. To send or not send cards for the GC is a dilemma but I'm going to continue to do so as long as I know where they're living. I can't understand why ES remains living 15 doors away considering he always looks so uncomfortable when we do see him, and she gets away as quickly as she can.

It must be because they can't afford to move. If they sell our investment and my brother's will have to be re paid; that was their deposit and would mean they don't have a deposit to buy else where. Personally, I'd rather pay rent than live in a house I could never have afforded without the assistance of my parents and uncle, who I refuse to have anything to do with.

It's not easy having loved ones in another country at the best of times heavenknows and it must be really difficult for you with so much to deal with.

Not sure what we're doing today but there's plenty ofand what ever we'll be doing, we'll be doing it with DS and lovely d.i.l. Our lives haven't gone the way we thought they would, but we have so much to be grateful for and I am, I really am.

Rhinestone - my mother would happily help me move there, but I can't. Ex sees the dcs at a contact centre, supervised, and he would never ever agree to me taking them out of the country. Because they are both disabled, medical insurance issues would be a nightmare.

Hi All- Pure exhaustion last night trying to deal with packing and mom. I could t even get through the first episode of Downton last night. ( It just started here) So here I am up in the middle of the night stressing out about everything. Moms illness takes precedence over estrangement now.
SmilelessI m so glad you are having a wonderful time and you and Mr. S are so appreciated. I was thinking about your situation and thought if I were estranged from my parents I wouldn't want to live down the street from them as your ES does. If he is so disinterested in you then why doesn't he move. It seems that estranged people don't want to run into each other. Or does he REALLY deep down want to? It's almost like one half of him is estranged and the other half wants to be near you just in case he needs you.
Celebgran**I'm with you on this card thing. We have only been doing it for almost a year and I'm tired of no response not knowing if the GC see ms the card at all or the ESS rips it up. I'm getting to the point of indifference about our boys. I just care about the grandchildren.
HeavenknowsAny chance of moving back to the states where you have family? If your X was abusive he probably can't see the children anyways. And what you said about estrangement effecting the whole family is correct. Now my DD is estrangement from her stepbrother and their family for not inviting her and her children and husband to little Aiden's fifth birthday. ( EDIL said she didn't want her to have to keep a secret from us about the party so she didn't invite them) So let's see to wrap this up. My DS is estranged from us, my DD and my mother. We don't know exactly why. My ESS and EDIL are not talking to us and keeping the children from us and we don't know why. Can no one have a conversation ? Are they all cowards? We are done texting and leaving voicemail messages to see the children. It is time to move on and spend the energy on those who still live and care for us and not waste it on mean, cruel, passive and cowardly children.