Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 4

Thank you Gagagran

I'm not sure why but when I read your post soontobe "Death by a thousand cuts" really resonated with me. I thought of paper cuts, you know those really fine ones that are barely visible but really sting.

Uncertainty is very difficult to live with. It sounds as if your friend is living in a time bomb situation, waiting for the next explosion and wondering if that explosion's going to be large or small. I have a friend whose situation is very similar to ours although she has been seeing her son and GC fairly regularly. Before each visit she worries about whether they'll actually turn up (they have been known not too) or if their visit to them will be cancelled at the last minute which has happened several times.

Then there's the stress of the visits themselves; will their dil even talk to them? Will their son have more than two words to say? Will she be able to give him a hug or will his body language tell her to keep her distance? She tells me it's worth it, just to see their son and GC but I couldn't do it. When the dil does speak she's usually rude and cutting and they never know when the visits are over if they'll be the last.

Having no contact with our son and only GC is heartbreaking but at least we know where we stand. I don't like that phrase either but I do feel it's apt. We are learning to accept and live with what's happened to us and our family and I think in the process have stopped the "cuts".

I firmly believe that 'the truth will come out in the end' Rhinestone and that our GC like yours will one day know what really happened. I'm sorry you didn't get cards from them, it's like twisting the knife isn't it and they seem to be rather good at it; I'd never realised our son had this hidden 'talent'.

It could all come down to that in the end, fear. He's afraid to reach out to us because as you say, he probably knows he's wrong and fears our response and our fear to reach out to him because we're afraid of, not just another rejection but another bitter, cruel and angry email.

Glad you liked the goodies Celeb. Enjoy your champagne, there is still much in our lives for us to be grateful for and enjoy. So pleased you like my long posts as I've just done another one.

Well Smileless it does sound like your DIL is what's causing the problem. He is probably torn between her and you and your DH.
And you are correct... your son is a coward but when you think about it , cowards are such because they fear something. He probably knows he's wrong and fears his parents comments. So if you ignore something it just goes away in the cowards mind. It's the old " if I don't respond to a problem it doesn't exist."
My birthday came and went on Thursday and no call or card from stepson and his family nor from my son. I'm angry more than hurt right now. How can they both look in the mirror and like what they see? But the worst is not knowing exactly what is wrong. Someday the grandchildren will know the truth.

Smileless we love your long posts and please don't stop!

Thank you for goodies Gra sat to work and have been naughty collected pasty and jam donut from bakers for lunch! Mmm will have do some housework work it off. Is sunny here today.

Ga treated me to bottle Champagne from. Marks half price late birthday drink will raise toss to yogagirl lovely new Grandaughter and smileless holiday!and our hol to Gra. Canaria and weekends away next week etc etc

Soontobe that sounds very gloomy we are not that way at all despite things not as we would like we all focus on what good stuff we do have in our lives.

It isnt just one event, it is many.

Can I say that people your way of having to live is very difficult indeed.
"Death by a thosuand cuts" is a phrase that keeps coming to mind. I dont much like the phrase but am unable to think of a more suitable one.

I see someone I know who is going thorugh something similar in some ways, though not chld and grandchildren related.

He doesnt know from one day to the next what problem is going to crop up next relating to the issue.

Just popped on to wish you all a good weekend and send a few things to get it underway.

could get used to much shorter posts.

Thanks for the hug Celebgranand the*Yogagirl*. I hope all is well with your lovely daughter and granddaughter; give her a hug from me next time you see her.

What a lovely post Gagagran. Thank you for your kind words of support, they're greatly appreciated.

I think you've given your aunt the right advice Penstemon. She really does need to try and reign in her feelings of disappointment and be grateful that he is coming back to this country. I know if our DS decides to come back from Aus we'll be so pleased that he's back in the UK we wont care where he decides to settle.

I would suggest that the next time they skype, she apologise for expressing her disappointment. She could say that she got a bit carried away with the excitement of him coming back to the UK and wrongly assumed he would be living nearer to her, that it doesn't really matter where he lives because they can still skype on a regular basis in between visits.

You're absolutely right Celeb, estrangement is a dark place to be and your aunt needs to do whatever she can to prevent it happening between her and her son Penstemon. It would be very sad indeed to see her on this thread because contact has been lost.

Yes I agree Rhinestone I think there are some children who seem to think they can do and say whatever they like and because we're their parents we'll just put up with it. I'm like you, I face problems head on, if you don't then how can you possibly expect to resolve anything. Our ES is a coward. He hides behind his laptop and sends nasty and malicious emails and either will not or cannot stand up to his wife.

We have always responded to any contact he's made with us, no matter how awful, by telling him we'll always love him and be here for him but only once have we ever instigated it. That was last summer. Only his car had been at the house for several days, just a few months before he'd left her and we'd wondered if they'd broken up again. We walked down to the house one evening, thinking he was there alone. When he eventually opened the door after I'd yelled through the letter box "for goodness sake, open the door" we realised our mistake as we could could hear her slamming doors. We apologised to him, saying we'd thought he was there alone and turned to leave. He went back inside, closed the door but then came out again. I walked toward him with my arms out stretched and tears in my eyes and he went to go back inside. I said "..... wait, please" and he looked at me and said "we mustn't do this it causes too much trouble" then he went back in. When we woke up the next morning he'd sent a 7 page email at 2.00am and it was terrible beyond words. It was like the ravings of a lunatic, he'd mentioned her by name 24 times, it really was awful. My DH didn't want me to read it as most of the false allegations were about me but I braced myself and a couple of weeks later I did.

I was stunned; I've never contacted him since, and never will.

Sorry for another long post. If I wasn't so wordy they wouldn't be and I wouldn't have to keep apologising, I just can't help it!!!

Penstemon IMO please persuade her to let it go if they had issues she must be aware. At least he will be In Same country she does t want to risk estrangement it is dark place to be, I would not push it if I were her.

I feel that our children feel entitled to treat us this way. And in my mind it's a form of running away rather than deal with issues they may have with us. In my case they aren't going to tell us why they are mad .. they are going to ignore us and make us guess. My children saw me deal with problems head on. I didn't ignore my parents when I had an issue. I used words not silence to work out issues. They are cowards for hiding from us and every other person on this list who has the same issue. I for one have committed no crime yet I am treated like a criminal. Did we not babysit enough? Cater to them enough or too much?
We are at eight months and the longer this goes on the less patience I have for this disrespectful behavior. Someday I take joy in knowing that our kids will be in laws and grandparents. But I wish this mental torture on no one .

I wonder if any of you can offer suggestions or advice for me to pass on to my aunt. Both her DSs live overseas, partly because they are bilingual and they got really good jobs but I think there was an element of putting a bit of distance between them and their mum; she was a little overbearing as a parent! They visit her a couple of times a year and she does see her DGC and communicates via skype. However eldest DS returning to UK in (early) retirement but choosing to buy a home in remote area 300 miles from his mum. She is distraught as she imagined that he would choose to live closer..not more than an hour's drive! She has told him this and how upset she is with his choice. I have tried to explain that this is likely to make things worse rather than better but she insists on telling him her feelings whenever he skypes her, which is getting less often. I don't want them to become completely estranged over this so would appreciate some advice please.

Just wonder if there is a pattern more we do for our kids worse they treat us? We too gave lots money for daughters wedding just 9 years ago and I bought her wedding dress. It was a lovely day.

I could feel vibes of her making lots fuss of her in laws and hugged her sis in law first after ceremony maybe signs were all there that she was fed up with us ? Who knows. Made me think your stepsons wedding.

Sorry rhinestone not sure how long been for you. Is nearly 7 years for us and we have never once had an acknowledgement from our daughter for all xmas birthday and Easter cards and presents and vouchers.
I do a blog for mollie our oldest Grandaughter.

I take part in closed group for parents like us and have firm friends on here.
Sadly some people have no idea of pain of estrangement and can Be quite unkind.

I would t wish it on my worst enemy.

Celebrants- I intend on sending birthday and Xmas gifts to the grandchildren and someday they will know the truth of why we haven't seen them. I sent Easter gifts and my EDIL did send a thank you from the children back to us. But she wrote it and there were no signatures and pictures on it from the kids.
Smileless- The more I think about your situation and the fact that you WERE close with your ES, the more I feel the parading by your house is an attempt from him to " bump" into you. That's easier than actually picking up the phone and calling you.
Bumping into you accidentally would not be a deliberate act.
I'm assuming you have tried contacting him over the years. What has happened?
We feel like fools for giving my stepson so much for his wedding six years ago and then my husband wasn't allowed to dance with the bride until everyone had been called to the dance floor. I'm not sure how you do it but here the bride and groom dance with their parents for the bridal dance and then everyone can get on the floor and dance. My husband is the only father so it was odd to see the DJ call the two moms up to dance with my stepson and DIL. And my poor husband sat there so embarrassed.
I wanted to crawl in a hole. And when the best man gave a speech he thanked the DIL's mom and my DH X wife. And we were the ones that gave a lot of money for the wedding. The other moms gave nothing.
Again I should have seen the start of this pattern. We give and do all the work and get nothing in return. And what's really weird is that I have known my stepson for over thirty years and we have a wonderful relationship.

Gagagran what kind post. I have to live with fact that extremely unlikely,after 7 years my daughter will contact us we have tried everything.
Dilemma ever year do we still sent cards presents to little ones 2 we. Ever met it is way too upsetting choosing things will send vouchers this year I think. Lots for ends say stop sending things she may get jolt, is very hard they are our grandchildren and not their fault.

We do have good news that life goes on and we enjoy other relationships gagagran not all sad!

Dear sad GNs I always look at your posts to see how you are getting on and in the hope of seeing some good news about restored relationships with those you so clearly love. I feel for you all, knowing how very sad I should be if I were in such a situation. I wish things were different for you and hope that one day soon you will be able to post some good news. for you all.

smileless

Oh smileless big hug that is painful memory why oh why do we have to hurt each other so in this life.

It was my 7 th birthday I still get sad missing Tor but I do appreciate my lovely son and his family and my dear nephew ,wife and little Danika so not all sad.

Gosh don't feel great today fkare up.of ibs and went folk dancing great fun but shattered.

Smileless yes she should have given that bible back so v sad. I cared for my.s I law feel fool now

Even when we don't have expectations Rhinestone we can still hope. Am I right in thinking this will be your first bday since the estrangement? If that's the case I do hope an absence of cards doesn't spoil your day. The first bday's, mother's day and father's day we didn't get cards were the hardest as we couldn't help but hope; it has got a little easier though.

Jealousyis the reason, her jealousy of the relationship we used to have. The day she accepted his proposal we met up with them and her parents to celebrate and she looked right at me and said "I have only child syndrome; I don't share"and boy oh boy she wasn't kidding was she. I simply responded with "well I guess you'll have to learn then".

He told me they argued about the amount of time he spent with me, not that it encroached on their time together, before they were married. She came to see me a few months before the wedding and said she had been jealous because she hadn't realised it was natural in some cases for a parent and their child to be so close but she was over it nowclearly not.

Things deteriorated when they found out they were having a boy. I feel like a complete fool to be honest. I had no idea she was saying the things she was until it was too late; it was all falling apart. I think she was frightened that I would be close to her son, which of course I would have been but not in the way I was with my ES; I would have been a grandmother to him not a mother.

The reallything is I loved her, I really did. The eve before the wedding I gave her my brides Bible, that my wedding bouquet had been fastened too, that I'd carried down the aisle on my wedding day. It was the most precious personal gift I could have given her and now I regret it deeply. I can't believe she's still got it and if she hasn't she must have thrown it away. Oh dear, this is making me cry; she should have returned it to me if she didn't want it anymore. I'd recorded the births of our boys in it and the death of my beloved grandmother.

If only I'd known then what I know now. Still we all feel that way don't we.

Oh well, no point in crying over spilled milk. Hope all is well with you Celeb are you busy honing your computer skills?

I'm so glad Smileless that you are going to visit your other son. If I didn't have my daughter and her two kids I don't know how much more pain I would be able to take. I'm trying not to have any expectations but my birthday is Thursday and I am not expecting a call from my son or stepson. My stepdaughter all ready sent me a card and a gift as she lives across the country.
I may have missed your posts about why you think you are estranged from your son. I still cannot believe he parades around with your GC.

Oh I don't have to imagine Rhinestone I still get goose bumps when we first go into the Magic Kingdom; see like I said, just a big kid at heart.

Holidays are difficult. Our other son, the eldest, is living in Aus. at the moment. DH comes from a large family but since this has happened we've spent Christmas with friends, alternating the role of hosts. We do see family but it's much easier being in the company of friends some how.

We never had the opportunity to see our GC at Christmas or on any of his birthdays. This year we're going to spend Christmas with our son and d.i.l. in Aus. Our ES's second child is due about Christmas and his brother thought we might prefer not to be around.

When we first found out she was expecting again I felt shattered. The thought of another GC that we wont be allowed to see being paraded around the village just seemed a step too far. A week after he'd told us our DS 'phoned and invited us for Christmas. We weren't sure if we would go as we'd already organised and paid for flights to Florida in October, but well, you can't take it with you can you and we were so upset about everything, me in particular, we decided to go.

It's funny though how things can change unexpectedly. DH and I were saying a couple of weeks ago that if we'd been invited now we probably would have said no, as we feel so much better than we did. We're really looking forward to it though and realise how fortunate we are to be able to go. I think I'll enjoy it even more knowing that I'd have been quite happy to stay and wont be 'running away' if you know what I mean. That wouldn't have made any difference anyway, I mean we have to come back and face up to it don't we; this is where we live, this is our home.

A steaming machinewhy didn't I think of that.

Hope you enjoyed your siesta Celeb.

I'm laughing Smileless because I can't remember the last time I ironed. I bought a steaming machine so I wouldn't have to. Good for you though.
How do you get through holidays. Do you have other children or relatives with which to celebrate?
I know where your town is in Florida. When I entered Disneyworld a few years ago I felt joy at seeing Minnie Mouse. Imagine that?

Thank you Celeb, back at you

Pleased see you posting rhinestone but sorry you have estrangement problems.

Smileless is a rower of strength and support to us all despite going through hell herself.

I have been enjoying sunshine husband off for management t day did so e cleaning first.

Now for a siesta

Welcome back Celebgran. So pleased you enjoyed Carol King I hope the break away did you some good and your headaches are getting better.

I'm not sure I'd call that passive aggressive Rhinestone as far as our ES is concerned I think it's a combination of cowardice and the indisputable fact that there aren't any valid reasons for their behaviour. They're not children any more, they're adults with children of their own and if there really are 'issues' then why don't they just come out with it and say what they are.

I totally understand why you get madder and madder, you must miss your GC dreadfully. I suppose we're fortunate that we never really had the chance to get to know our GC. We didn't spend much time with him and he was only 8 months old when they stopped us from seeing him altogether. It must be so hard for you both when you'd spent so much time with them.

They really are unbelievable aren't they, your husband's son sending him a text and telling him he MAY talk to him in the future; who do they think they are. I'm not surprised he doesn't want to write to him, I wouldn't either; oooh it makes me so madit really does.

Our property is in Haines City near Davenport. I'm just a big kid really and simply love all that is Disney. The Magic Kingdom is simply wonderful and I really must stop buying ornaments or our home will begin to resemble one of the gift shops. DH bless him gets dragged around there every time we go. He loves it really.

Well I'd better get on with the ironing. Have a good weekend everyone.