Battle weary

How old is DGS. Children can be easily swayed. Perhaps he really did think he wanted to spend time alone with his cousin - at that moment in time.

Would it be an idea for you do a bit of gentle probing next time you see him and try to find out what the lad himself really wants? He may genuinely have gone off football! (Unlikely, but he may have!). If he does still want to go maybe DiL could take him to training for a while. It seems a shame for him to miss out and I'm sure she'd soon get bored with it!

It is totally unacceptable that the children are being manipulated in this way, as you well know. And I am sure you must be very concerned about the effect that this will have on them if it continues.

There are family mediation centres in most areas and, although it is clear that DIL would not play ball with this, it might be helpful for your son to talk with them about how to manage this situation for the sake of the children. I am sure they are used to just one partner turning up.

It is so good that you are there to be a rock for these children, but the current situation is not tenable in the long term if the children are to emerge relatively unscathed. I do not mean to sound alarmist or depressing, as I am sure you realise that anyway.

As you know from my previous post, I think that SSD needs to be involved. I know it would be a red rag to a bull, but something needs to happen that will make her take on board the seriousness of the damage she is doing to the children.

Keep up the good work - where would they be without you?

NFK - No way has he gone off football. He is obsessed! He is 8 and he is clearly trying to please his mum when he is there. He does not get on well with his cousin and they fight constantly. Mum would never take him to training. She hates it. Mind you so do I but many a boring hour have I spent with him and my own sons because you do don't you?

The weather is so bad he probably won't have football or tennis - he'll be back to his X Box!

Lucky - I have broached the subject of mediation for my DS but ultimately it is his decision. He is forced to live with me and I try not to influence him as he is a grown man now, after all.

Thank you all for listening but I'm afraid this situation will go on and I have to do my best for the children so that in the long term they have lots of happy memories. NFK I will take your advice and keep my own diary. That will help me offload without boring you all and should the worst come to the worst I will have an accurate record.

Hi gm2213 I've just read this thread and I want to say I am impressed by your magnamity. If I could offer advice, I'd say it seems as if she has a drinking problem (or is developing one) which could account for a lot of her behaviour. So perhaps it would help your little unit (you, your son and indirectly the children) if you sought help from a community group like Alanon, to learn how deal with that.

Hugs and love x

Perhaps just the suggestion that she takes him may make her relent a little? Make her see that it's your DGS who's suffering most? It's her weapon to beat you all with and she may not be thinking clearly of how much she's punishing her DS. Hopefully in time she'll think of some other way of getting at your DS which doesn't involve the children!

You are doing a fantastic job keeping things on as even a keel as possible. GK's suggestion on getting advice from someone like Alanon is a good one. They know all the wrinkles!

Good luck!

G2213 you are doing a wonderful job, keeping on good terms with your son's ex, supporting your son and being a great Nana to your GC.

I know you're feeling 'battle weary' but gird your loins, put on your armour and stay strong. And at the end of the day reach for and or if you need something stronger

Children should not be in the sole care of an alcoholic, even for short periods - it is far too dangerous.

I don't think the mother in question has been described as an alcoholic.

Perhaps I misread somewhere - I understood she had a drinking problem.

Am wondering the same as loopylou. Who has custody of the children? I'm assuming that, although she can make life absolutely awful for all of you, including the children, she doesn't have a court order saying that your son cannot see them, or speak to members of the family. What a dreadful situation. Can your DS tell her that she is not to come around to your house or contact any of you? Make sure you and your family get as much professional help as you can. Dealing with her via a trained third party will take all the emotional 'stuff' out of it. You can then concentrate all your emotions on the children instead of her. If she kicks up a fuss when you go to the police or social services this may be grounds for the children living elsewhere. Poor you and DS.

Lucky - no I don't think she is an alcoholic. As far as I know she does not drink when she has the children. It is just that she drinks to excess when she does and that is when she becomes totally unreasonable. To be honest that happens even when she is not drunk too. I suspect she does not deal with stress well and at one time I thought it might be PMS and kept a record on my calendar! Now I think she is just very unhappy and cannot let go of DS. She has said frequently that she will make his life 'Hell' and she has.

SuzieB - She and DS were not married and there is no legal arrangement but the unwritten agreement was that they live with her which is best for school and nursery but that DS has them at weekends and extra in school holidays. There would always be some flexibility also. I look after them when he is at work and her sister looks after them when she is at work. If she requested, DS always arranged for one or all of them to spend some time with them at weekends. Similarly he can take DGs to football or DGD to swimming in the week. That arrangement would be fine if she did not have these moods and suddenly declare, 'This is MY time' or make demands or threaten, rather than discuss in advance. There have been times when she is 'OK' and they have both taken the children out together eg to the cinema or for a birthday treat. (She does not drive). Of course the children love this.

We want the children to live with her as they love her and she is their Mum. We just don't want this manipulation and living on a knife edge waiting for her mood changes. That is what is wearing me down.

I really wish they would take professional help but she refuses, saying the only problem is DS! I know he is not perfect and sometimes gets it wrong but he loves his kids and can't bear the thought of not seeing them so tends to give in to her.

Thanks Anya - my loins are well girded for the next battle and tonight I have reached for something stronger !

NFK - I have started that diary which is even more long winded than this and I'm letting it all out!

People who do not have a problem with alcohol, never drink to excess. Or put another way, they are always able to control their drinking (they do not drink to get drunk). So, whilst she may not be an alcoholic, the fact that she gets drunk is concerning. Hopefully she is aware of that.

Just make sure it has a good lock!

(The diary, that is)

Gosh, when I read this I felt a shiver! This is almost exactly the same as my DSs situation, except that they are married, and she is now expecting a child (in 4 weeks time) by her new partner (who has already had one child taken into care because SHE couldn't cope with 3 children under 5) We have discovered to our considerable cost that all we can do is bow to her most unreasonable demands if we want our beloved GCs to ever have any semblance of normality in their lives. We have booked a holiday with them at the time the child is due, but are expecting her to refuse to let them go. Unfortunately SSDs have so many truly awful cases to deal with that her low-level neglect can't be a priority. All we can do is shower them with love when we do see them, and try our best not to upset the apple cart. My prayer is that soon DS will be financially sound enough to find a place of his own, and perhaps have a greater share in their care.

Grannieanne - there must be so many of us in a similar position in this day and age. As you say we are all trying not to upset the apple cart.

We too have booked a holiday (only a weekend) but are on edge despite the fact that DS has had to take a week off work to look after the children because she is going on holiday for a week abroad with friends! She has done this several times and apart from one weekend away he has not had a holiday in several years as financially it is impossible. He also has them bank holidays (his only days off) so she can go out.

DS seems to have so many friends who have vindictive ex's that he is losing faith in women in general. That is so sad, but as in your case a new partner can make the situation even worse!

On the positive side my other DS split up with his partner in very difficult circumstances and they have worked out a joint custody arrangement which works well for the children. They have their ups and downs of course but they make sure it does not affect the children who are thriving. Both just won best in their year award at school. Mum, Dad and both Grandmas attended the ceremony. I was so proud.

Good luck to you and to all the other Grandparents out there in similar circumstances. At least we see our DGC's. I know not everyone does and my heart goes out to them too.

I'm not quite sure if I am on the right page but I googled grandchild of six seems to have completlley gone off myself and his grandfather !we love him dearly and he does not even want to speak to us, in the past he was so loving and now he does not show any affection and really it quite upsets us as we have had a lot of contact with him since birth, he has two brothers who we have spent a lot of time with and I was pleased to read on google that some of the gransnet members have experienced similar things, I have tried most of my clever tricks and often will buy him extra things but it at the moment does not seem to have any affect I am hoping that this is a phase and our loving little boy will appear again,I am very close to his mother who is my youngest daughter and often I have to babysit because she has quite a heavy business program to run, but it does seem an uphill climb at the moment any tips on how to move forward would be appreciated

He hasn't 'gone off' you Honey he's just growing away a little bit. It's a natural part of the growing up process. Stop trying to bribe him by buying him extra, that's not a good idea. Just try to remember he's not a baby any more and needs something different from you if your relationship is to continue.

Find out what his interests are at the moment and go from there, but don't overpower him with your need to rebuild the relationship. Give him some autonomy and best of luck

Ditto what Anya says.

I'm afraid your loving little boy may be turning into a big boy and your relationship will change a bit. He may well seem to pull away from you for a while, but he'll be back when he's grown into his new skin. A loving big boy!

I like that, very apt 'grown into his new skin' Nfk

When our grandson was small, we talked about the fact that the day would come when our relationship with him would change, and this has been the year that it has. He is nearly nine and is no longer grandad's little shadow. His interests are changing and he likes his own space much more. Accept that you will still be a constant in his life and enjoy watching him grow up.