Angry Daughter

Hello

I have changed my life by going along to Al Anon meetings, I to was affected by other peoples drinking, and this has given me ways of coping far better than I have ever done in the past. I look at both sides and know I cant change the past, however, I have made a better future for myself and my family member who still continues to drink.
I possibly think your daughter would benefit, but I suspect she feels there is nothing wrong with her.
I hope you can gain some serenity and my thoughts go with you.

B

It's sad, seems like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't op.

DCs don't seem to realise that not only is the Instruction Manual missing but so much of child raising is driving by the seat of your pants.
Most mums do the very best they can with whatever resources they have available, I know I did but while DS says he had a wonderful childhood sadly my DD would not agree. It breaks my heart she feels this way and I'm only too thankful that we have a great relationship now.

It's so flippin' difficult isn't it?

The one thing I agree with your soon about is "at the very least don't email her to tell her you're not going". I think email has taken the immediacy out of conversations about relationships. I know I email/text my DSs and DiLs about such things as "what should I get the boys for Christmas?" However, if there is an issue that goes deeper I use the phone because you can't judge tone of voice in an email. Email is a way of keeping family at arm's length.

3211123rjc As parents we all have to make difficult decisions, some of them may be right, others will be spectacularly wrong - and we often cannot know which is which until the events that led to our decision are long gone. While there are uncaring and indifferent parents who always take the easy way out, the majority of parents think long and hard before making these decisions, especially when it affects our children.

When children are in their teens and early twenties, they are often uncomprehending and unforgiving about decisions made in their childhood that turned out to be not the best, but by the time children reach their late 30s and early 40s they really ought to understand how difficult the decisions people make are, especially, when they were facing up to circumstances like yours.

I think the time has come for you to concentrate on yourself. Your second marriage is obviously happy and successful and I think that you too have been damaged by your difficult first marriage. Do take up other people's suggestions to contact a group like al-anon or seek counselling to help you through this difficult time.

Your son sounds seriously wet!

"the mess of adults that your children have become."

And your son is blaming you for that? Are you sure he is an adult? Sounds more like 6!

Tell 'em to grow up

I have just received this email from my son after I told him that I was not going for Christmas, and I am not sure if either of my children understand choices I made I know were wrong but when you have no money and no where to go in the days when Domestic violence was not recognised and the police would do nothing to help.
I have been divorced for 23 years now, and still this horrible man is in my life when I try to keep him out..
And this is what my son says:
Then mum, you'll never repair the relationships with your children. When it comes down to the crunch it sounds like you're not willing to deal with your role and how it contributed to the mess of adults that your children have become. It's just another way to brush it all away and play pretend that this isn't an issue. It is, we both hurt so much because of the choices of the adults around us. We had no choice at all and it is us that is paying the price for it.

Instead of helping us, you're helping yourself and that's exactly what happened when we were children. You convinced yourself you were helping us, but your inaction and avoidance was hurting us.


I think you should seriously reconsider and at the very least don't email her to tell her you're not going.

Sorry to all, I seem to have lost the thread and posted my last message in the wrong place.

Again, many thanks to all the messages, I have made my decision, I am not going at Christmas. The invite was made before this recent episode and whether she understands or not, I can not keep putting myself up for the "will she, won't she" keep her temper. I constantly have to put my personality on hold because something I do or say may upset her. I can not live like this, this is exactly what I had to do with her father for so long, until eventually I lost sight of who I was and didn't like or recognise who I had become. I love her to bits and back, I will just have to sit and wait for what ever may be.
My real worry is not having the contact with the children, I know she wants this to, but I will have to wait for that to.
I have apologised, for everything, I have offered to talk and listen, but I am still waiting for a reply. I am hoping my husband will be able to sallow his pride and apologise to.
My son thinks not going for Christmas is just me wanting to hide and lick my wounds....he maybe right.

I also have an angry daughter.She is in her mid thirties,has a very good job and she can truthfully say she has worked very hard to get it.The thing she has not achieved is a partner and children which I know she would love.Her anger erupted upon the announcement of our younger daughters pregnancy and we all tiptoed around because we understood why she was upset.She then seemed to turn it all on me.I was worried about her reaction when the baby was born but she loved her to bits and has done ever since.
I however have not fared so well,I have always been conscious that she needed some support and have always tried my best but everything I have ever done is now twisted and thrown back in my face,I am the only target.It has taken me about a year to talk about it without crying I am so bewildered.She is my daughter and I love her but am terrified of any more attacks so I now leave any contact up to her and will never see her without any other family members for support,luckily she lives a long way away so that's quite easy.This has now left a sense of loss I could not try try and talk to her I could not survive another assault.

I fully agree with Monica's first paragraph but not sure what she meant in her Christmas invitation as it was before this latest upset.

Talking therapy especially for your daughter but maybe some for you would help. Let's hope this Gransnet blog helps and counselling is all about finding the right answer for you.

Maybe her doctor has suggested counselling but she has rejected it.

Sounds like your daughter is very stressed can only cope when she is in control. I wonder if she behaves like this at work maybe takes out her stress at home. Tip toeing around her sounds more like rewarding bad behaviour. She shouts you all jump. I am not suggesting you challenge her but as many before have said, keep a low profile, don't interfere or tidy up only when she has asked.

Send a cheerful apologetic note maybe saying you understand you may have interfered too much and you understand her annoyance and won't do so in future. How does one apologise without being accused of playing the victim in this situation.

Maybe a gift of a spa treatment for her Christmas present ( and you deserve one as well)

It is all so hurtful and unfair. Sorry not very helpful.

One more thought...Please don't fall into the habit of chalking everything up to her anger over her father. Some things are just about what's happening in the moment. For example, her annoyance with your tidying up might be because you do it differently than she does or because she sees it as an implication that you don't think her house is neat enough. I know, I know, you're just trying to help. My point is that she might not see it that way - or may have little/nothing to do with past issues. Another reason not to get drawn into arguments that may lead back to those (irrelevant) issues.

Oh, actually two more thoughts.... You are NOT "the root cause" of your D's problems - your XH is or rather, perhaps, his alcoholism is. Maybe you should have left him sooner (although then she might be "blaming" you for not trying harder or helping him, who knows?). But you are NOT the main source of the problems that plagued your lives. D points her finger at you, I believe, because you're the easier target/the target that's there. I'm so sorry she gets ugly. But, in my opinion, that's more about her than you. Also, if you avoid escalation, she's less likely to get to that point.

I don't know... If the invitation came after the recent altercation, I would agree with Monica that it's an olive branch and you should accept it. But I get the impression that it came before. If so, then I think the current rift cancels it out. Unless she responds to your email in a positive manner, I would just skip it this year. You probably all need some space from each other and that's as true on Christmas as any other day.

I do agree that you should avoid being drawn into sensitive conversations with your D in the future and that you should "not rise to provocation." Just listen a bit, maybe make some sympathetic noises if appropriate ("I know that hurt you") and then change the subject. If she gets mad at that, the way she did when you decided to leave, oh well. At least you know nothing you said was drama-causing.

As far as her accusing you of "playing the victim," I don't know what to think about that. I don't know if she means she feels you act as if you were more the victim of her dad's behavior than she and her brother or that you act like you're the one hurt when she's expressing her anger at whatever. Either way, it sounds as if she doesn't fully realize that you have your issues/can be hurt, too. That's not uncommon in kids, I don't think, not even when they reach adulthood.

It's unfair, of course, but also another sign, I think, that you need to just let her air her grievances, change any behavior of your own that needs to be changed (like tidying up for her -glad you're not going to do that anymore) and not react with your own concerns. It's hard not to, I know, but I think it will help you avoid escalation. There doesn't have to be a "last straw" moment if you don't let it get that far.

Also. I second the suggestion of Al-Anon. Your D should go, too, of course, but again, neither you nor your husband can suggest it. Maybe if she, somehow, notices that it helps you, she'll get the idea on her own.

My heart aches for you and everyone here in this situation. (((Hugs)))

3211123rjc Accept the invite for Christmas. It is an olive branch, I think the comment 'that she will understand if you want to spend it alone' is a phrase to protect herself should you turn the offer down. I think your daughter has over the years built up an armour of behaviour to protect her self from the feelings of insecurity and lack of control her difficult childhood engendered. Underneath those feelings are still there and scare her and make her very defensive.

I have not had a relationship as difficult as yours with my daughter, nor the traumatic background but I have a daughter who I love dearly and loves me, but she is not the easiest person to deal with. She recognises this in herself. She has chosen to remain single, partner-free and childless because she accepts that she is incapable of the compromises necessary to make such relationships work. She has many good friends, but knows her limits.

I learnt very early in her life to relax, give her as much space as I can and refuse to be drawn into discussions where I know we will end up at loggerheads. There are times when she wants to have a row with me, more because she is wound up than that I have done anything but I have become adept at avoiding them. She has even complained about this! We have built up our relationship by bonding over the interests we share, in our case needlework and textiles and home decor.

When we love someone and they are not easy to deal with, it is easy to end up trying to hard. Take a deep breath accept theChristmas invite and go to enjoy yourself, grandchildren are wonderful and childhood slips by so quickly. Go with the flow accept that your daughter can be defensive and prickly, but let it flow over you, it is more about her past than your present. Do not rise to provocation, deflect it, there are those grandchildren to play with. Look for the things you and daughter share and build on them and.... Good luck!

I feel so sorry for the sad situation with your daughter. I wonder if her behaviour towards you stems from her feelings of guilt that she did not stand up for you when your ex husband was mistreating you. Every time she sees you and when you are being so pleasant and reasonable towards her this reminds her or her lack of support all those years ago. My dad, (who I loved dearly), was better educated than my mum and often talked down to her which upset me. I can remember pointing this out to him as a child and he would back down not realising how his behaviour was affecting me.

Oh it has, that is for sure.

Before all of this started (again) she asked us for Christmas, but also said she understood if we wanted to spend it by ourselves, as she has always known that we need space sometimes. I hadn't made up my mind what to do and therefore hadn't given her an answer.

Now of course if I choose not to go it looks as if I am sulking, but on the other hand I have no idea whether we are still welcome.

I have asked in an email but still no reply. My gut feeling is not to go, but then I miss out on the children, as they live nearly 5hrs away I don't get to see them often.

I just always worry that one day it will be the final straw and she will cut me out of her life as she has done with her father. I fought for years to have a relationship with her, tried to keep her safe, showed her she was loved by at least one parent, talked when she wanted, listened, or at least tried to when she wanted. Anytime she asked for my emotional help and support she was given it, even though at times I was feeling low myself and emotionally bruised.

I just wonder what in all that is holy do I have to do.

Everyone that reads this is amazing, thanks again.

321rjc I do think that having an alcoholic parent can have profound effects on children and the way they behave in later life.

I have a friend whose father was an alcoholic. She and her mother suffered psychological and physical abuse and were frequently humiliated by being locked out of the house by him. She is a very dear friend but I believe these earlier experiences have made her able to cut off from her own emotions and the emotions of others - she can come across as quite cold and unfeeling.

People respond differently to childhood experiences. Some, like my friend, are able to lock their emotions away. Others find it difficult to control their emotions and can be super-sensitive. Perhaps your daughter perceived your tidying up as a veiled criticism - not because it was meant that way but because she was feeling down and a bit out of control that day.

It sounds like your daughter has a lot of bottled up anger and no-one to offload it on except you. I expect you would both benefit from some sort of family therapy. For the time being, though, I would give your daughter some space to reflect on her behaviour whilst still keeping in touch.

It's quite understandable that your husband wanted to defend you, but I think it's probably best that he let you fight your own battles - she is your daughter after all and his interjections may make her feel even more resentful.

Thanks everyone for your words of advise and or encouragement. I certainly had a few tears whilst reading the messages. Why are those that are nearest so cruel?

I have told my daughter many times that I love her and how proud I am of her success, all of her achievements have been through a lot of hard work, she is very driven and I guess she has used her unhappiness to push herself on. Unlike her brother who is a lot more laid back, but has his issues to, but never has he been so hurtful as she has towards us all.
Her partner is nothing short of a saint, as he tries hard to understand and support her, but never ever interferes. He has opinions but never says so to me.

But her level of intolerance towards me sometimes shocks.

And to those who suggested talking, I have, and yes my husband should never have interfered and I have said so to them both. He has been so kind to her over the years and helped in the house with DIY. He loves the 2 children and they call him Grandpa. So he is as hurt about this as I am, but doesn't understand when I have just walked away in the past, which I agree is one way of handling it. But this time it just made her see red, so I really am hard pressed to know when I am misjudging the situation, and yes, I will not tidy up again without being asked!!!

Once again thanks to all and good wishes to everyone who are hurting.

3211123rjc I posted last week on a thread which was coincidentally related to someone affected by alcohol. I was also hugely affected by someone with a major problem and I eventually found hope, confidence and strength through the wonderful organisation, Al-Anon. All those close to an alcoholic are affected one way or another. If you can get to one or two of their meetings, I think you might find them beneficial with your relationship with your daughter. You cannot change someone else but you can change how you deal with him or her. Al-Anon has a good website where you can find details of what it is and where the meetings are. The meetings are all over the U.K. and are completely anonymous. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

I am so sorry for all your problems but am I allowed a little diversion. I have a friend who refers to herself as "arty farty" " achy pachy" and now I think that "hippy dippy " also suits her exactly. Thank you skullduggery

behaviour towards you is completely unacceptable obviously!

I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time with your daughter. Unfortunately, I suspect that your daughter is simply a selfish madam and having an alcoholic father does not justify her rude and aggressive behaviour towards you.

My dad smoked and drank excessively and died relatively early. My parents marriage was clearly strained because of his behaviour but my temperament is my own. If I'm obnoxious towards someone then that is entirely my responsibility and should not be excused or blamed on anyone else.

Your daughter probably does need some help perhaps in the form of counselling to enable her to process her emotions but her behaviour towards you in the meantime is completely acceptable.

I have a sister-in-law who occasionally complains about her mother and her childhood and frankly talks absolute bollocks at times. She's a bit hippy dippy and into rebirthing and other nonsense but she's so focussed on herself that she has lost all perspective.

Unfortunately, you cannot change other people's behaviour only your own attitude towards them. I think you need to keep a bit of distance between you and your daughter and when she lashes out, you need to remove yourself from the firing line. Don't argue or justify but walk away until she calms down. Her aggression is clearly ruining her relationship with her own children and unless checked, will have consequences for her further down the line.

Bottom line: You are not responsible for her bad behaviour towards you.

If you want to improve relationships you need to go for therapy, in my experience. You will understand yourself better and because of this deep awareness relationships improve. Relationships as mirrors was a book, I think many years ago. Good luck.

These posts have brought tears to my eyes as I have been in this situation for about 20 years now. My youngest,a boy of 24 was killed in an accident while serving in the RAF 20 years ago. My other 3children have since spent years at a time refusing any contact with me or claiming to want to rebuild our relationship but then dumping me again. Obviously there is a lot more to this story but would take forever to write. My point is that I have been rebuffed so many times and in such unpleasant ways that I KNOW we can never be close again. This is very sad for all concerned but I don't think any of us trust the others any more. Actually all this only refers to my 2daughters as I haven't seen my eldest son since my youngest died. (Apart from a few minutes a couple of times when he has visited his sisters) In fact he told me that for ease of explanation he tells people I am dead.

I did leave my first husband when my children were around 8 and 3. Eventually I remarried had 2 more children.The older one, a girl, left home to go to university and I really have never heard from her since except when we were in an accident and her step sister was killed. She has 2 children of her own and has wound such a story about her early life to her partner/friends that she couldn't possibly retrace her steps and come back.
I can't let it upset me as it would spoil what I do have. There is no value it picking over the bones. It would upset the rest of the very happy family too much.