Angry Daughter

Thanks to all for their thoughts. My daughter is quiet, she spoke abit over Christmas, though not about anything much. My son knows I am not happy with his attitude. He has been quiet, but that is what he does.
Still I will wait for either of them to make contact. My husband is really hurt though by the way my daughter turned on him, but that is for him to deal with. I have decided I have a life and need to get on with it. I am fed up of being the whipping boy, and will leave them to cool off for now. I certainly have learnt some parenting lessons.

It is easy for parents to be the scapegoats for children's difficulties. They can be cross/ rude/ hurtful to parents in a way they cannot be to friends or partners. They know we will carry on loving them whatever. However if the subject comes up again perhaps you should say you did your best in a difficult situation and no doubt you got some bits wrong as you are only human.

Totally agree with Notyetagran. For some reason some children seem to think that as their mother, we have the answer to everything and should have always done absolutely the right thing. Life isn't like that, such as her outburst at you, making the children frightened. 99 per cent of all mothers love their children and want them to be happy. With hindsight we can all look back and focus on the bad instead of the good. Unfortunately, your son and daughter need to realise that. Making everything about themselves and not seeing how you must have suffered for years needs to change, but only they can do that. Hanging on to all that anger has not made them happy.

From what you say you will not be joining your daughter Christmas. Would it help if you wrote to her saying that you love her and her brother more than anything, but the constant blaming you reawakens all those years you struggled to do the right thing,everyone want to for right by their children, you are sorry with hindsight that it didn't prove to be in her eyes, but you did your best at the time. The past cannot be altered, my how we would all always do just the right thing, but we are human beings without a plan to follow.

Try to have a Merry Christmas and I do hope things improve for you all.?

So glad you had a lovely time with the children and that your daughter's partner is maintaining contact with you.
As you and your children seem to be hurting so much I do wonder if it would be helpful to all have family counselling and if you have ever had any counselling yourself?
And just a thought that may or may not be worth considering:
Perhaps a simple statement to your children is needed that,
"clearly you have no idea what I have been through and what I had to do to protect you. When you are ready to hear as one adult to another then let me know. Until then stop attacking me as I am not the perpetrator of the situation we were all flung into"
and then leave it well alone and give them plenty of thinking time.
If and when there is an indication that there is to be an adult conversation then make sure it is in a counselling environment with a professional in charge. In this situation you are not their "mummy" any more and they are no longer children, you are all adults and should all have moved on from those days.
Enjoy the good relationships you have and minimise the rest.

Well here we are again, had the grandchildren visit today,we are shattered, but in a nice way. Have kept clear of daughter,and when she rang on Monday to check we would still be here for the children, the conversation was short but pleasant.
The son on the other hand, has decided to be just about as hurtful as he could make it..no details here, but he is the victim, hurt by his father, damaged by my non action in the past. I don't know whether to be cross or sorry he can't put this in the past. He's had a full year of counselling which seems to have made him more angry at me then anything else.
Anyway, I am soooooo fed up of all of this, their father gets none of this because he just doesn't care.
I really feel like throwing my hands up and saying.... Go ahead blame me for everything, yes I was a terrible parent for allowing an alcoholic to be your father, I'll say anything for this just to stop, to stop the arguments stop the anger and just let me move out of this mans shadow once and for all.

I wish you all happy holidays

Glad you liked my suggestions, 321. And glad you were assertive with your son about your choices. Good for you! Hope you let us know if and how he replies.

Someone said your D may actually be somewhat like her father. I was thinking something like that, too. In fact, is it possible that she got the idea, somewhere along the way, after watching the dynamics between you and her dad, that it's ok to lash out at you/someone? That it's ok to dish out verbal abuse if you (general) are hurting/not feeling your best? Is that why she claims you (personal) play the victim when you walk out or whatever? Could it be that she only sees her pain and can't see yours or doesn't think it matters if she wounds you?

Anyhow, happy to hear the good news! Hurray! I trust you know enough not to badmouth your D to her guy b/c that may just make things uncomfortable and the kids may overhear. Enjoy your GC and your Christmas!

notyetagran - I think you are a seriously good egg. When my father behaved appallingly (got a much younger woman pregnant and left home with no explanantion to us) my sister and I had no contact with him at all. When I married and had my own children I then re-established contact with him but not long after that he got cancer and died. I regret those missed years - he was a weak man, had had a dreadful upbringing, about which I knew nothing, but he was not a bad man. I hope 321's daughter does not live to regret her actions in later years. As her own children grow up she may well come to realise that parenting is not an exact science. We do our best and sometimes that is not good enough. I am so lucky to have had a wonderful mother who battled on alone, without complaint. I emphatically agree with those who say that 321's children need to grow up and ditch the 'poor little me' syndrome. It is not a healthy attitude to hang on to.

She may be your daughter but this does not give her the right to speak aggressively to you. If she loves you she will make amends. If I was you I would leave her well alone. She will be back. As for you, life is too short to be made miserable by others. Go out, have fun, be with people that make you laugh. Definitely box this problem up and do not open the lid on it. All problems come to an end. You see, she will come back with her tail between her legs, feeling guilty eventually. I can tell you all this because I also have been through it with my son and like you my DH (his step father) intervened and made the situation worse.

A bit of good news, my daughters partner is visiting his parents soon and taking the children. As they live about 30ish miles away he is bringing them here to. Though no mention if my daughter will be with him.

I have told my son that it's my choice not to go for Christmas. And I am still waiting for a reply to that.

But nothing is going to dampen my joy of seeing my little ones for a few hours soon. I treasure these visits far more than Christmas Day.

Notyetagran good post. I am glad you saw your mother was only human and did the best she could at the time.

321 Remind your daughter and son their father was the alcoholic not you. Unless your exhusband was physically and emotionally abusing your children while you stood back you don't need to apologise to them. You did the best you could at the time and I am sure you have apologised enough. No doubt your daughter would have blamed you no matter what choices you made. I would guess your daughter is more like her father in personality.

Apologising seems to me to be why your children say you act as the victim. You apologise when your daughter takes her bad moods out on you. You also apologised for tidying up the wrong way. Continually doing the same thing doesn't work and apologising more profusely and tiptoeing around someone's bad behaviour only makes the situation worse.

Don't miss out on your grandchildren over Christmas 321, email your daughter and let her know you have decided to still be there, if she has changed her plans to let you know. She would probably welcome your olive branch, it would be so much better to arrive at Christmas with gifts and get that first hurdle over with.

Notyetagran. Same upbringing with me. I didn't understand how a mother couldn't protect her children from being hurt by their father until I read about 'battered woman syndrome' and then I understood that she was not capable of protecting us. I felt very sorry for her.

That's the thing, though, isn't it, we can think and think about how we would have done things differently.
We only did what we thought was best at the time, it could have seemed the right thing at the time but on reflection it may not have been.

But getting angry with you now is not the right way to sort things out; you have apologised and you all either need to make a fresh start and move on or someone (not you, your DH or your son) needs to help her through this - what is your relationship with her OH? Does he suffer from her anger or is it just you and your DH?
You can't suggest to her OH that she needs help (that could set her off again), but can you appeal to him for help in trying to mend your relationship with her?

Good luck

Wendysue, thank you so much for your suggestion, I normally have a clear mind about these things and am able to see wood from trees!, different when its your own, isn't it?

I am thinking of using some of your suggestions, as I need to reply to him today. He has always been my supporter as he has gotten older, but is a bit of a drama queen, and "sensitive". I gues he thinks he has a right to have a say. Most of my messages here have said the same, give her time, tell him to back off. I think I have to agree.

So here goes..........

My heart goes out to all who are hurting in this thread..

Carolyn, I'm so sorry about your older daughter. But I think you're very wise to keep your distance and make sure you are never alone with her. There comes a point where a parent has to protect themselves.

Mollie, I agree that our early lives impact who we are as adults. But I don't think that means we should go around actively angry at our parents for their mistakes or that we can't take the bull by the horns, at some point, and say "I'm going to change." If that's too hard to do on one's own, there's such a thing as therapy.

Notyetagran, your story is very heartwarming. Good on you for learning to see your mother in a more sympathetic light and reconciling with her. I'm sorry your brothers and sisters were never able to do this. I'm also sorry you lost them (or they lost you) in the process, but I'm getting the impression it was worth it for the beautiful relationship you rebuilt with your mother. So sorry that she's gone but hope the loving memories help.

The reason I gave that variation, 321, is that it's really not your son's business how you communicate with his sister. Nor, come to think of it, is it really his business whether or not you're going to her home for Xmas, unless he's coming in from Germany and was looking forward to seeing you. If so, however, perhaps you can plan to see him on another day, depending on how long he's staying.

But, anyhow, I realize you didn't ask for suggestions of how to reply to your son, so I hope you don't mind that I gave you some. I'm not sure how good it is either. But you know him, I don't, so I'm sure you'll know what to use/adapt, if anything, and what to discard. Also, if you're interested in such suggestions, perhaps someone else will give you some better ideas.

Then again, perhaps you've already answered him or don't intend to. Regardless, I hope he comes to accept your decision. An invitation isn't a summons and people don't have to come if they choose otherwise.

Meanwhile, I agree with those who say your second marriage sounds great! Please focus on enjoying that!

Your last post is very beautiful, 321.

I don't know for sure, but I think I would email my son something like this:

I understand that some of the choices I made years ago were hurtful to you and your sister. I am deeply sorry about that. If I could do it over, I would.

Would choosing to go where I'm not wanted help to repair any damage that was done? I don't think so. And clearly, your sister no longer wants me over for Christmas. If she did, she would have reassured me of that when I asked her.

The fact that she hasn't responded suggests that she wants no contact with me, at all, at the moment. I think I need to respect that. This isn't about "inaction" or "avoidance," it's about respecting another person's feelings (your sister's). In fact, if I were to show up, unwanted, at her home, I believe I would be crossing a serious boundary. Unless and until, your sister lets me know that we're still on for Christmas, I'm going to assume that I'm unwelcome and keep my distance.

As for how to tell her... I agree with you that email is not the best way. However, I doubt she will pick up her phone. Nor do I think she would be very happy about it if I showed up unexpectedly to give her this information. Besides, if she has something to say about it, she can answer me just as well by email as any other way. So yes, I'm afraid, I will tell her by email, after all.

OR variation

So I will have to carefully weigh the different types of communication in my mind and decide how I think it's best to tell her.

Thanks to Qinwa, I to will be supportive, if or when I am contacted, still I guess she is feeling raw like me .All I can do is wait, she knows I love her, and her two lovely, lively, bundles of energy. My husband sent his apologises, so I hope she can see that it's time to forgive. .

I too used this site in desperation when I had a similar fall out with my daughter. The comments from everyone have been very helpful and supportive. Thankfully I think our relationship has improved since her outbursts. Although I was very hurt, I continued to be supportive.

I once saw a clip on TV when Oprah Winfield spoke to a Buddhist monk. He talked about 'deep listening'. He suggested you open the conversation by saying 'I'm sorry you are hurting, please tell me what is causing this unhappiness' and be prepared to listen deeply. He said giving the other person the opportunity to be listened to will lessen their pain and help them move forward. You may not be able to turn back the clock or offer any solutions but you can listen to her hurt, anger, disappointment etc.

Children tend to behave badly with their parents because they know no matter what they will not disown them. It's also a credit to you that she feels able to vent her frustration. I know it's difficult, no matter how old we get we can't escape being a parent.

I hope this help.

Very happy for you notyetagran.

Mollie, indeed I did have that luxury. It wasn't quite so much that I decided I'd rather have my mum in my life, rather that I began to see her, from the distance of estrangement, as a human being in her own right and not just as, "my mother". Once I'd crossed that hurdle I was able to look back over the years and view her as a struggling young mum trying her best in difficult circumstances to give her children a better start in life than she had had. (She was pretty much rejected by her own mother for reasons far too complicated to go into here)

She strove to make things, "perfect" for us because she was, under it all, a perfectionist, but used to fall into the trap, as many perfectionists do, that if something wasn't, "perfect" it was, "spoiled" which leads them into the well of despair from which it is so hard to escape. That was her, "crime" no more no less. Yes it lead to a certain amount of what could be termed, "neglect" and that, in turn, would be classed as, "abuse" today. But she wasn't a bad person. She was a much flawed and hurt human being who genuinely wanted the best for her children but often felt so powerless that she couldn't function properly.

At that point I realised that what I really wanted wasn't so much, "my mum in my life", nothing that self-centred; I just wanted to make that sad, lonely human being feel wanted and needed and important to someone. I wanted to see her smile a genuine smile and I wanted to hear her laugh. I got what I wanted and so much more. Because by focussing on her and helping her to heal I unearthed a wonderful, intelligent, warm, caring human being who was prepared to go to the ends of the earth for me and her grandchildren. And that, in turn, took me so far along the road to my own, "recovery".

notyetagran, I couldn't agree more with you. I did not experience the severe difficulties mentioned by other posters but I had a childhood disrupted by a medical problem and a difficult relationship with my parents. For a short period in my late teens and early 20s I nearly hated my parents, but as I matured, I began to understand the cause of the problems, and to realise that my parents loved their children dearly and always made decisions that they thought were in our best interests, even if they often were not. They too were formed by their childhood experiences and upbringing.

I never achieved the closeness to my mother that you managed, notyet a gran, but I achieved a loving relationship based on understanding her problems and difficulties, and appreciating just how much there was in my childhood that was good and nurturing. It is too easy to let the memory of the problems overshadow all that was good. I am also aware that the capacity I developed to cope with the difficulties in my childhood gave me a resilience in the rest of my life that I have often been so grateful for.

Time some of these children grew up and stopped focusing inwardly and feeling hard done by I can only echo what you say.

Interesting notyetagran. Congratulations for working it all out for yourself and with your mum. The key seems to be that you had a period of estrangement when you decided (I assume) you'd rather have your mum in your life than not. Perhaps the point is that many don't have that space.

I am absolutely of the opinion that there comes a point when one just has to stop bleating, "poor me" about whatever happened in childhood and realise that, as adults, we are responsible for the people we have become and not our parents. I say this as someone who grew up with an abusive father and an anxiety ridden and depressive mother and who married an abusive man who became alcohol dependent as he got older and who became anxiety ridden and depressive in turn.

I went through a period of not speaking to my mother but that was when I was in my twenties and coming to terms with the fact that I hadn't had a rosy upbringing and so that was just tough and I had to get on with life.

From my early 30s I reconnected with my mother, forgave her wholeheartedly for the things I had perceived as being, "her fault" in the process of my growing up and asked her forgiveness for setting unattainable standards for her as a mother and failing to accept that she was just a human being who loved me but didn't always do what was best in every situation simply because she was as flawed as anyone else, no more and no less, and it was unbelievably self-centered and narcissistic of me to expect her to have been, "perfect" for me.

Needless to say, I was forgiven every bit as wholeheartedly and we became incredibly close over the following twenty years or so. I am coming up to the fifth anniversary of her death on the 19th of this month and miss her as sorely now as I did then.

Sadly, my older brothers and sister have remained stuck in the, "poor me" phase of self obsessed childhood. (Even though they are now all well into their 60s) I have no time for any of them. While I don't wish any of them ill, I don't communicate with them and don't miss them one whit.

Time some of these children grew up and stopped focusing inwardly and feeling hard done by. Sorry if that was very blunt. My love to you OP.

I've been reading this thread with interest. While I really don't want to comment on the problem here, I would like to ask a question, if I may?

If both children (now grown up) feel the same I'd be inclined to believe that their early days are key to their adult feelings. However, some here on the thread feel that they ought to have shrugged it all off by now and certainly have no right to blame the OP for staying with their drunken father and perpetuating the horrible situation which obviously still haunts them both.

Isn't the point that our childhood experiences go to make us the adults we all become and some of those early traumas/problems will undoubtedly haunt us throughout our lives? Or do you think that there's a point/an age when we should just shrug off the past? If so, when. And how?

The description of my son as "wet" made me smile!

I do agree about the Al-anon, will see.

I also agree about emails, but he's in Germany, and I don't think my daughter would answer the phone and I don't think I am strong enough to take her rejection just at the moment.

And I can't believe that I am still learning this parent thing after all these years, but everyone out there who come back to me with comments are helping me feel not quite so alone as I was doing. My second marriage is great, that is true, he has been a rock, but recently lost his daughter to suicide so I tend not to try to worry him too much.

S..t, I have just realised what a mess this all sounds!!!