Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 5

Oooooh we've got our first viewing tomorrowI'd all but given up hope. The couple are first time buyers; well there always good because you don't have chain worries.

The house I fell in love with is still available and the price has been reduced by 5K which has understandably resulted in a few viewings. Well back off prospective buyers I say in my indulgent and selfish manner particular to this thread it seems. It's mine; I want it.

So dear friends please keep everything that it's possible to cross, crossed.

Yes, I know I'm getting ahead of myself and I'm trying really hard not too but it would be SO good to get away from here.

extremely well put Smilless.

I think you may have it we have built up strong friendships on here.

Yes we are allowed to be sad as I tried to explain it would be pretty peculiar if we weren't it doesn't mean we are abnormal or not tryIng to rebuild our lives.

The attitude of the posters on mumsnet is appalling their language and posts which could be viewed by their children are disgraceful. I could understand why some of them have been cut off by their parents ?.
Most children are sadly online at around 8 or earlier how can they be so irresponsible?

Yes Jenty this is a support thread but sadly that dos not make it immune from insensitive remarks. It has been referred to on the thread about a supposed quote from here on MN as 'that thread'.

And yes Elegran on here we do speak of our pain as do others on other threads but it is only on here that we are accused of it all being about us. If we want to come on this thread and talk of our pain due to estrangement then why shouldn't we? You don't regard the content of some of your posts as attacking!! Really, "So it IS about your own hurt then".

And there you go again "to a point where they feel that anyone referring to a husband, a mother, a child seems to them to be acting insensitively and causing them anguish, or they feel that everyone is targeting them deliberately about the subject" Where do you get this from? Who has said this?

I wonder what it is about this thread and when it was running on AIBU that seems to bother some people. Is it that there are fewer regular posters who, over a period of years have built up friendships, or is it perhaps that if this terrible estrangement can happen to us through no fault of ours, it could happen to you too.

No one on here is saying that the pain of estrangement is greater than any other pain Katek but it seems that only on this thread, it is written off as self indulgence and selfishness.

Thanks elegran to be honest i asked gp to chase it helpful lady she did they just said long waiting list, have emailed, then they wrote asked if still wanted it?Replied filled in form if I hadnt they would crossed me off list.?I mentioned things worse ref ed illness.

If I would accept group or phone counselling would been quicker.

I just need help to accept this is the end if ed does t want us when she is seriously ill with pulmonary embolisms in lungs it really is the end. My heart struggles with that. My head says focus on good things I do have and hope head wins.?

I dont think it is about trauma or sadness it is just all so unnecessary to rip our beloved Grandaughter away after we loved her so at just 9 months is just so very cruel and I guess it has damaged us badly. Not even a photo ever since so extremely hard to cope with happening so suddenly.but I am Not alone. A positive is the friends I have made in the same boat.

If only ed could have explained or told us what was wrong, or even kept some line of contact however fragile just such extreme lengths changing phone nos overnight and it makes you feel horribly different and so vulnerable.

Thank you Yogagirl

Work...

Elegran very sorry for the loss of your dear husband, after 52yrs of being together it must have been traumatic to loss him Difference is; you can go and put flowers on his grave, you can relive the happy memories, you can 'talk' to him and you can remember when he said to you "I love you, my darling", all this helps greatly in the healing process. When my mum & dad died, to whom I was very close, it took me a year to recover, I cried in the beginning driving home in my car and such like in the days after. But with estrangement their is none of this, no laying of flowers, no sympathy for your loss, just a big open wound, which cannot heal!
I would like to say more but need to leave for back, back tomorrow....

I am glad to hear that, celebgran and I hope all those who are facing similar things have good lives too. Keep pushing them about the CBT - the squeaky hinge gets the oil, the one that keeps quiet doesn't.

Best wishes.

I might add I did ask for referral for cbt and have waited since last December as I we have huge waiting lists apparently

I have had counselling for year after it happened, and couple times since, first l e was amazing sadly he moved, others not so good.

I feel latest development with my daughters illness I could do with some help but it will pass as have waited so long.??

Elegran. You completely misunderstand I have come to terms as best I can with our loss but it is a wider picture.

That my s I law has personally contacted my daughters godparents, friends etc and severed all contact.
That is the thing i worry about. Did you not read my post?

We are enjoying our lives and deed have been for last 7 years it is the only way.
We are blessed with lovely son and other close family and friends as I said.

Thanks for trying to understand but I think you got wrong end of stick as it were,

I can't see that I said anywhere that grief should stop after any specific length of time. Four years is how long it is since I was widowed and I still feel grief. If it were as sharp and all-consuming still now as at the start, I would be seeking counselling.

What I did say, expanded a bit, was that If anyone still finds that the central pivot of their lives after a space of several years is their bereavement or their estrangement (to the point where they feel that anyone referring to a husband, a mother, a child seems to them to be acting insensitively and causing them anguish, or they feel that everyone is targeting them deliberately about the subject) then it is time they sought professional advice to help them find a way to change their perceptions..

I read your posts to mean that you see the situation in terms of how much it hurt you and still hurts - that is obvious in them. Then you see all posts suggesting ways to lessen that hurt as attempts to hurt you more. That you take my post as an attack seems to me to show that you do need that help I spoke of! If you have not taken a step to find it, please do so before you are destroyed by things.

It is not the situation that Elegran is commenting on but the pain it engenders. We all understand pain, or are you saying that there is no pain greater than that of an estranged grandparent? That no one can understand your distress unless they too have experienced it?

Strange elegran that you feel able to comment on a situation you know absolutely nothing about?

My daughter cut her entire family,and childhood friends out of her life within 3 years of her marriage that is our main concern.

We tried to visit on news of her life threatening illness her f I law out of work so came to door to rudely dismiss us, her godfather had driven us,to see her as we are all concerned about children's welfare with her being unable care for them.

We rebuilt to our,lives and life them to the full, feeling. Blesses with our son and rest of our family and friends.

No one can understand unless in similar situation that there are constant remind ers and anniversaries which will bring grief to surface.

It isn't about anything as childish or immature as who is most important.

I am pleased if my daughter is happy but sad our grand daughters are missing so much with loving grandparents uncles, aunts etc etc. I doubt my ed is happy being so Ill and we would have been happy to help but,sadly,she does nothing t want that.

4 years is a strange time limit elegran that you think grief should cease in my experience one never gets over a bereavement. I watched my mother die from cancer In 1984. I still miss her and think of her,daily.over 30 years later. I will go to my grave contented that I did my best for her and my beloved f I law who we lost just before daughter estranged us 7 years ago.

come on ladies this is suppose to be a support thread!

it is so easy to misinterpret comments that have been written down and then things get taken out of context, we all deal with estrangement in our own way doing what we feel suits us and we should respect others opinions without attack!

Elegran I agree with what you say....well said..

So it IS about your own hurt then? Not about it being better for your daughter or grandchildren to be in contact with you than in a family group together with their father, but about the pain that you feel? about them not wanting you in their lives? If you get it clear in your own mind just what is the thing that is troubling you most, you can begin the healing process.

If you have a physical pain, you go to the GP to sort it out and find you the treatment that will ease it. There are people who can find you ways to ease the emotional pain too. When that has lessened, it will be easier to accept the loss. It won't take away the loss - as four years has not taken away the loss of my dear husband, but life goes on without him, and it seems to me that your life must go on, without your daughter and her family.

In comparing loss with loss, I have not said that I have lost more than you, Celebgran, I have said "as traumatic an experience as an estrangement" and believe me, his illness, and his death and his absence from my life were traumatic and still are. I had him for 52 years, he was the other half of me. I think the last few weeks of his life, when he was at home mostly under my care, will stay in my mind for ever.

BUT if the memories caused me as much grief and anguish as several posters still feel years after an estrangement, then I would go to my GP and ask to be referred for someone qualified to help me.

I am extremely sorry elegran that you lost you your husband, please accept my sympathy.

However it is not comparable to a deliberate estrangement and totally wrong to say so. Grief comes in many forms and it is not possible to compare one form with another In That manner.

Sadly when we lost a loved one to death they have not done this deliberately to hurt us like a deliberate estrangement does. I am sure you,can understands this elegran.

Celeb

Wow this iPad gets worse of course I meant anyone that knows you Smilelss as I feel i have begun to through our 3 years of messaging and emails would not accuse you of selfishness. I can't abide people who offer opinions when they don't know the person take note elegran.

Well if you don't remember the exact words in my post Elegran you shouldn't have attributed statements to me that I didn't make. As I've said, you take a lot upon yourself assuming that you know my thought processes "your reaction to it was hypersensitive". I find your post insensitive, and not for the first time.

Smilelss anything be that knows your unanswered we have built up a good relationship together with pm s emails etc would realise that you are a very kind thoughtful person.

I have had difficult emotions this weekend. With my best friend new grandson arriving while we away together and it hurts because it brings back bittersweet memories, life can be tough. Of course I am pleased for her I love her dearly but it hurts to much to remember her nit used to be for us and sadly may never be again.

Elegran I think the feelings of grandparents estranged or otherwise are just as important as grandchildren or did I misunderstand you?
We all have a right to expect consideration and respect.

No one has the right to belittle and jeer at another's pain the way they are on mumsnet and it is a sad reflection of the world now. Trolls is the name given to anyone doing the aforementioned on the internet elegran,

It is like a cult of which poster can be the most Vile as far as I can see.
What sort of message is this about their parenting? Anyone capable of such vile verbal abuse about people and situations they know nothing is pretty despicable in my opinion. I was too busy caring for my little ones and combing working part-time to have spent his hours online like they do anyway.

I may not remember the exact words in your post, smileless but I do remember thinking at the time that it was a very critical reaction about someone who was being normal -it did not sound particularly insensitive, but your reaction to it was hypersensitive He was making conversation about his life. He was still allowed to have one, you know, and not obliged to keep it a complete secret from you.

Since I lost my husband, which was as traumatic an experience as an estrangement, many of the people I speak to, even during the first few weeks, have mentioned what they and their husbands were doing, I didn't immediately assume that they were being insensitive talking about husbands when I didn't have one any more. I was just interested in their lives as well as my own.

Your memory is not as accurate as you seem to think Elegran. The post you're referring to was mine and I said it was insensitive of my b.i.l. which it was. I did not say he should have known not to hurt me by mentioning his GC at all, they're often mentioned as they should be. Saying he was insensitive is more or less saying he was thoughtless, but cruel; I didn't accuse him of cruelty.

I continue to be hurt by the fact that we are denied contact with our GC for their sake as much as ours. You take a lot upon yourself by assuming you know what is on my mind and in my heart and to accuse me of being the centre of my own universe, and that I am more concerned about myself than my GC is outrageous.

thats the trouble with the Internet its there forever! Ive come across some stuff that my younger daughter has said about me on a particular website...I asked the site owner to remove it and they contacted my daughter to ask her if she would remove it and she refused then I got a really abusive email from daughter because I had contacted the site! The site refused to remove the posting and its still there to this day!! ?

On the subject of walking away I think I found it easy because both my GC are adults and they like my older daughter made the choice to ignore me...I do think if both GC were a lot younger I would feel completely different and really struggle coping with being estranged.

Re mumsnet ##########!!!!!!!!!!

hope you all have a good day..

Crossed posts, Celebgran Good to see that you agree about keeping names off the net - much better.

Celebgran Your knowledge of the care that schools take to ensure that children do not come into danger between their care and their safe arrival home must surely also make you agree with the opinion of almost all the posters on this thread and others - that the names of grandchildren and other details about their lives and their families should stay anonymous on the internet?

The posters on GN are expressing a different view, in the hope that seeing the situation from someone's point of view might help those who are estranged to come to terms with it. That would be a good thing for everyone, including the grandchildren who are so important.

The people who have commented on here about this are NOT trolling, if you had ever been attacked by a troll you would definitely know you had been attacked!

I have not read the Mumsnet thread, but the people on there are mothers, and are as concerned about their children as Grans are of their grandchildren. On Mumsnet they call a spade a spade.

In fact, I sometimes wonder just how much the grandchildren are at the centre of some of the estrangements I read about , and how much the main aim is to be proved right and to have their own hurt feelings considered first and foremost by everyone they come in contact with. This applies to both sides of a disagreement, but on GN we see more of the grandparents' side.

For instance, I remember a post about someone mentioning to the poster that they were exhausted from having their grandchildren there for a few days. The poster took exception to being told about this, as the person knew that they had no contact with their own grandchildren - they thought they should have known not to hurt them by mentioning GC at all, and it was just thoughtless and even cruel of them. Who was at the centre of concern here? Not the grandchildren - the grandmother was the most important person here, to herself!