Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 5

I'll put the question another way.

Is your mum friendly and accepting towards you 70% of the time with 30% of the time, she's a ranting at you?

I'm asking because in my generation we were taught to learn from and tolerate difficult people. They do serve a purpose not least they teach us not to be like them.

The next generation has been taught that difficult people are toxic and to get rid of them. They've now got labels such as 'narcissist, BPD and NPD.
The mere hint of a difficult person and we're told to cut them off.
But if going NC completely is causing misery on both sides. wouldn't it better to revisit your tolerance levels, keep your mum on a long leash, while you develop the skills to deal with her, but keep the channels of communication open rather than cutting them off completely?

It's only a suggestion because I can't tell how abusive your mum is. If she rants and rages occasionally but the rest of the time is bearable, could this be tolerable? You can control the volume by turning off the on/off switch.

It is very hard to think you may never be part of your child's life again. If they had been abused in any way, starved of love or food and home comforts, it is understandable. However, when you have done your best and your child objects to one aspect of your behaviour that annoys them, doesn't even tell you that is not a good reason. If they told you what it was that causes the friction maybe something could be sorted. To just cut off a parent is just callous and unfair. Everyone has the odd fault, no one is perfect, you love a person for who they are and accept the odd problem, we all do. In the end you cannot alter yourself to fit in with their idea of what you should be, some kind of designer mom. It is all very sad and there is no answer. That is why support is needed, because it does affect your self esteem, I know it has changed me as a person, no longer confident as I once was.

Do you love your mum Notanan? Do you think she loves you?

Notanan, I don't worry about what other family members think. I've got a dog instead! :-)

Marge59, you are completely right. Last October, my daughter emailed and said she wanted to try again. This backwards and forwards had been going on for a while but what was hard was that she'd come back but then within a week cut us off again and then not speak or say why. Or she'd find fault with something, for example, I'd sent an email that she hadn't asked for, and this would be the reason.
Anyway, I was really pleased that she wanted to try and so we agreed to meet up. I got to see my GD but my daughter was noticeably distant and not very warm at all. I thought to myself that we couldn't expect to just get back on track straight away, it would take time. After a few days, same treatment, got cut off again. I tried to arrange delivering Christmas presents and this wasn't taken well. There was nothing at Christmas, new year or my birthday. Then I received an email telling me how at fault I was and how it was never going to work because 'I was such a problem'. My heart sank. This time I knew I had to walk away because it was killing me. To keep coming back, 6 times in 5 years, introduce us to a baby, then take her away, then come back again, then write and say 'sorry, I've changed my mind, you're a pain in the arse and I can't be bothered', it sent me over the edge. For the first time in my life, I ended up on medication because I was so low. The reason I think I fell so far down was because in my heart I knew I couldn't keep putting myself through it. It had to end. This was the saddest, hardest part to come to terms with. I went to see my doctor and they put me on a mild SSRi and pills for anxiety. This was when I realised I had to let go. I had become ill. Even my doctor, who was very supportive, said I had to walk away. This was February this year. The pills took 3 months to kick in and I went through so many raw emotions. My daughter is really my last family member so I went through all the abandonment issues which is one of our worst primal fears. But.....almost 5 months on I am 100% better. I've grieved, let it all go, come out the other side and I've just accepted things and I'm moving on. The SSRi's work to rebalance the brains chemicals so I have to stay on them for 6 months but they're not addictive and by increasing serotonin levels, my higher mood means new neural pathways in the brain are being created by thinking more positive thoughts while the old thoughts are going. I'm glad I sought help because I needed it.

I don't think I deserve to be cut off but I've accepted it. I'm now ready to enjoy life again and I am much happier. I still have sad days but they are few and far between. You do have to take action to lift yourself out of despair. Being rejected by my daughter triggered the rejection by my mother but I am through it. It's not taking over my life. I'm functioning like normal, healthy person and I'm glad I went and did whatever I had to do to recover from being cut off again.
I'm not bitter and I don't live on estrangement forums, I've only just signed up to this group and I only lasted
12 hours on MN before I removed myself from the vitriol that goes on there. I am getting on with my life.

I think support groups are healthy as long as they are positive and don't keep you stuck going over the same old ground. There is a time to grieve and there is a time to start living again and that's where I'm at now.

some other relatives are strictly NC with her.

Some of the ones she's in contact with no have been NC with her in the past, but most are now on "her side" Vs me, when I tried my best to not involve anyone else or bitch about her to anyone so that people felt free to see us and her. But she's put anyone we're both in contact in a position of having to take sides, and hers is the only side they hear because I don't want to go running around the family trying to get everyone on "my side" because that's just not me

It was one of the issues with being in contact with her, if she fell out with anyone in the family she would expect me to fall out with them too out of loyalty. I don't really enjoy the conflict and the bitching so when it comes to family I just try to keep in touch with everyone and not bring my mother into conversations.

Notanan, you sound bereft. Just like the GP's who are cut off but don't know why. You have done the cutting off but it has made you sad which is understandable.
Have you talked to any third parties at all?
How does your mum get on with the rest of the family?

but I do wonder how many of these EC never even consider the possibility that their parents wouldn't want to rekindle that relationship

What relationship?
There wasn't much of one to start with.
It's more the hypothetical relatinship that I kept going back for before I went NC, not anything real that I ever really had.
And that's what I miss, they hypothetical relationship that I hoped for, but then lost hope for.
I don't miss her. I miss what I imagine could have been

I think best case scenario, is that she DOESN'T want our old relationship back, because our old relationship was rubbish. If she didn't want that back then maybe there would be hope for a new better relationship. But I don't think that's the case because she's always expressed her belief that there was nothing abnormal or damaging about our relationship. I think she genuinely thinks that all families behave like that behind closed doors. And I think that when her friends talk about normal family rows, she imagines they mean the swearing and the hurtfullness and the rage that happened in our home. And so she feels reassured that everyone's at it! But they're not! People row without going for the juggular, people can bicker without going below the belt. I don't think she realises that.

Perhaps your mother would say the same notanan but not say it with the same sincerity as Jenty, and as so many estranged parents would do

I'm afraid that's not the case. She's a practiced "street angel" and many people think she's a distraught doting nanna and I'm the "difficult" daughter.

I've had to accept that cutting her off means losing other family members, because while I would rather allow people to stay neutral and not drag them into it so that they can see her and us, she's collecting allies who think she's sincere.

Which is so hypocritical, on the one hand she's telling them that I'm "depriving" the girls of family, whilst at the same time working towards making sure that any mutual family members we have take "her side" and stop seeing us. So actually she's the one who has deprived the girls of more family members than I have.

Perhaps your mother would say the same notanan but not say it with the same sincerity as Jenty, and as so many estranged parents would do.

Jentyto be given a reason(s) would I believe make the loss of our AC easier to cope with. I can't remember who posted this a couple of days ago as there's been so many, but it was posted that what a lot of these AC who have NC with their parents don't always realise, is that given time parents do move on with their lives. Concentrating on the people who want them, spending less time worrying about those who don't.

We are quite literally looking to move on which is why our house is up for sale. There is no comfort to be found in catching the occasional glimpse of the son who doesn't want you anymore or the GC that don't even know you exist.

That is not to say that how ever long it takes, the EP's wouldn't want their AC back in their lives, but I do wonder how many of these EC never even consider the possibility that their parents wouldn't want to rekindle that relationship, if only because they'd always be waiting and wondering if it were going to happen again.

EP's may not have decided to remove themselves from their AC's lives but might take the decision not to be a part of their lives again.

I'm sure you're right Wendysue that the parents who've kept their children away from GP's may be worried about what those GP's would say if they were to have contact with them. Perhaps some of them would worry that their children would discover that not all was as it seemed. Perhaps they're worried the GP's will say awful things about them, things that simply aren't true and if that is their concern, perhaps that's because that's what they've been telling their children about their GP's.

I am actually finding this thread supportive in many ways.

Whether we are the person who has chosen to cut of or the person who has been cut off, it's just amazing to see that over the course of a week, this long running thread develop into the way it has done.

Reading back, I can see the tone has completely changed in its interaction between both sides. It has gone from each side blaming the other to both sides now actually talking to each other in a civilised and supportive manner.

This conversation clearly displays that there no winners in estranged relationships and that each and every person estranged has feelings too, nobody is happy, not really., not 100% to be either the person cut off or the person cutting off.

I have in the past been on forums elsewhere, support group forums, where those feeling the injured party just get themselves stuck in deep despair and aren't able to move on.

I was there myself once, totally distraught that my daughter had cut me and her father off, even had her family without including us, it was so hard, I thought that I'd never get over it, consumed in grief.

Now, I prefer support threads such as this one to be far more supportive and balanced, both sides of the coin supporting each other, allowing each side to reflect upon how the other side feels too, it's not just all about just one side being the worse off.

This support thread has helped me to accept that parents, grandparents and their grown adult children are all hurting.

Sadly, there is no easy solution I feel, it is about grieving the loss, acceptance, healing and moving on with life.

As I said before, where there is breath there is always hope but in the meantime just make your own life as happy as you can.

Go on supporting each other in here, it is great that we can and must be helping more members than just myself to be thinking about the other side, reflecting on my behaviour and thinking about how my daughter must be feelling too.

Notanan, perhaps this has been said already, but it sounds to me as if your mother is emotionally abusive, pure and simple. She may have a lot of anger in her and all that, but her behavior is still abuse in my opinion. You wouldn't spend time with someone who had physically abused you, even in a public place, unless you had to. So I see no reason to talk to/spend any time with your mother either. Sure, it's sad and that sadness may never leave you entirely. But, in your situation, I totally understand going NC.

Jenty, I'm so sorry. Please don't beat yourself up over letting your daughter in again - you were being a mother and reaching out in hopes of healing the rift. She was the one who was out of line. But now you know for the future. Hate to say it, but you are probably better off with her out of your life (sigh).

Nina, I understand your not wanting to give more details. I was just thinking that maybe this is one of the reasons why some parents keep their kids away from their EPs and other estranged relatives. I'm not saying this about anybody here, but I can see where some parents might be afraid of what the EPs/relatives might say if they had contact with the kids, especially time alone with them. In that case, I can see where even things like letting the kids skype with the EP might be avoided. But again, I'm not talking about any EPs or EAC here.

Like others here we want to know why our children have cut all contact with us as that would make things easier albeit hard to deal with..

here's the difficulty, my mother would say the same. She would say that our relationship was just "normal mother-daughter stuff". And that there was no justifiable reason for NC.

If pressed, she would say that I have told her what upsets me about our relationship in the past, but would describe that as an example of me being nasty towards her.

When it comes to ending a relationship (any kind, friendships, partnerships, marriages, or with parents/siblings), the actual end can sometimes be without discussion. But there'll usually have been attempts at discussion around the issues before it got to that point, it just may be that the other person didn't recognise the importance of what's being said? and as such, doesn't associate it with the ending of the relationship.

you cant moderate peoples behaviour towards you...you have to remove yourself from the situation no matter how hard it is....my yd would argue that black was white! she always had to have the last word in any confrontation with me...at first I did respond ( when she was living at home) then I stopped responding when she started by leaving the room...I quite often escaped to the bathroom....as with the vile emails I stopped responding....

I did have a difficult relationship with my mother I put it down to the fact she was brought up by her grandparents and to this day I dont know why....she showed no love to me or her grandkids and I vowed I would never treat my kids that way...when I used to visit her it was hard work so in the end I lessened the visits and rung her now and again just to keep the line of communication open...

Like others here we want to know why our children have cut all contact with us as that would make things easier albeit hard to deal with...the longer the rift goes on the harder it gets....

for you all...

Garlic, she would say that I was trying to "silence" her if I tried to walk away from a rant.

In her mind she wasn't the controlling one by physically forcing me to be on the recieving end of her tirade, I was the controlling one by "not letting her speak" (by speak, I mean swearing, and by "not letting her", I just didn't want the aggression in my face, she was free to vent to her friends etc, I just didn't want to be sworn at and told I'm awful by someone redfaced with hate)

'she follows me'

I had a flatmate who did that! It seems to betray an incomprehensible sense of - well, entitlement, to have their say for as long as they want, when they want, without regard for their victim listener. When I heard myself making weak excuses for being late to work, because I was embarrassed to admit "My flatmate blocked the door", I realised it was time to find another place to live!

It was oddly hard to leave - we were good friends in most respects, but this person was quite deaf to explanations of their weirdly domineering conversational style. They weren't able to understand that they did this, even when I pointed out they were in the middle of doing it

It's easy to imagine how many times more confusing, frustrating and defeating this must feel when the 'haranguer' is a close relative.

Yes Rosyglowbut I'm a stubborn so and so, so I'll keep on banging; do you fancy keeping me company

That's sad Anya to have missed out on your GP's. I know there's the saying 'you can't miss what you've never had' but I think you can; I do.

Smileless My head is sore from banging it against that brick wall! Is yours?

Though I've never really thought about it until recently I was one of those grandchildren removed from the influence of my grandparents, well grandmother really.

My mother hated her Mil and we were banned from visiting her. My father used to sneak us round there when he could, but mother invariably found out. In the end we upped sticks when I was 7 and moved to England and I never saw any of my father's side of the family ever again. Come to that I rarely saw any of my mother's side either, just the odd visit over the years.

but you did ask your mum to try and moderate her behaviour didn't you?

Over the years, yes. At the end, no, but by then everything had been tried many times over. And I kind of feel that if someone refuses to stop hurting you when you're not on the brink of NC, then it wouldn't be genuine if they then reined it it just because you are on the brink of / threatening NC. I never "threatened" NC to try to get her to adjust her behaviour before going NC, but I did ask her to adjust some behaviours (such as allowing me to walk away from conflict/fights, and not follow/trap me). I think that if you're going to stop hurting someone, it should be because you don't want to hurt that person, not because you are being threatened with NC, do you know what I mean? So in that respect, there wasn't any final chance when we were on the brink of NC but there were too many chances to count before we got to that point. At that point we no longer saw the point in asking for any sort of moderated contact or ground rules.

It's difficult to ask when there was complete denial of whole events. How do you say "you're welcome to pop in, but please don't do X again when you're here, we find it upsetting" if the response is "I never said/did that"?

Ground rules INFURIATED her, any attempt to set boundaries on our part was seen as totally unreasonable. It was very "my way or the highway".. and I guess eventually we chose the highway

notanan in response to a post of mine you've said "NC is the end of a long road of trying and trying to make thing work, not the reason why things aren't working. AC who have had to go NC have every right to feel upset and confused about why it's had to come to this".

I don't doubt that the aforementioned is true in your case but it isn't the basis for all AC going NC with their parents. Our ES and his wife didn't go down "a long road of trying and trying to make things work", our 27 year relationship with our son disintegrated in just 8 short months.

I agree that you and all AC who've had terribly sad and destructive relationships with their parents "have every right to feel upset and confused about why it's had to come to this", BUT so do the parents of AC who after a life time of caring, loving and a close relationship find themselves totally excluded with little or no explanation. Our ES's 'explanation' was "we mustn't do this, it causes too much trouble".

What annoys me and saddens and distresses other regular posters on this thread, is that there have been far too many posts in recent days which are critical and totally unsympathetic to the plight of parents who've been abandoned by their own children. We too "have every right to feel upset and confused about why it's had to come to this".

As GNHQ reminded everyone a couple of days ago, yes GN is a public forum and any one who is a member can post on any thread, but this is a thread to Support Family Members Cut Out Of Loved One's Lives
and sadly, in recent days there seems to have been more judge mental and uncaring posts than supportive ones.

It can be beneficial to hear about the experiences of those who've felt the need to go NC with a family member, whoever that family member maybe, but when that is in danger of detracting from the main purpose of a particular thread, perhaps it would be better to start another one for eg 'Why I decided to go non contact with a family member(s)'

Notanan thanks v interesting
to read as my ed and I never really got on for war better way putting it,
I always envied how my sister spent time at cinema, shops etc with her daughter,
.

Mined was fine with shopping as long as I was paying, I don't mean that to sound unkind, however she never ever wanted to do anything together that I enjoyed ie acquacise once I asked her come gymn with me just moral support, she didn't went with her friend instead, I was v hurt as only wanted company first time.

I am not sure why we didn't get on but similar ways to you and your mum a simple remark would spiral out of control. However when she had our dear gd I felt we had some lovely times together I drove over and made us lunch then cuddled little one it was so wonderful makes cry remembering.

Sadly it was v short lived trigger factor could been her grandad dying suddenly even tho he was 91 I know she felt guilt over not visiting him I said he would have understood you had new baby.

As said before 3 months later after reading text on phone she gave me from her b friend basically slagging me off, writhin couple days mobile changed, landline changed 3 times her husband going to police to try prevent us writing to her like a very very bad dream never woken from.

Sorry back to you notanan if do feel for you as it seems you did the only thing possible in your situation but you did ask your mum to try and moderate her behaviour didn't you?

Is sad as in truly believe YOUR MUM is the one person who loves her child unconditionally. Unlike Nina I was very lucky to have a wonderful mum. I hope I was a good mum My son assures me I am but of course ed would not agree so I have to accept I wasnt the mum she wanted me to be.

I am the person I am, faults and all and I can honestly say i did my utmost for both my children always. I am sure I didn't always get it right no doubt lost my temper over trivia at times but I know I worked so hard to be a good mum.

Rosy, the peace I speak of is quite literal, audible. As in nobody is filling my home / family events with vile words and venom. Life sure does sound more peaceful and the children are in a peaceful environment now when we have family gatherings.

There's the usual bickering that all families do, but it's generally peaceful sounds of chatting and laughing most of the time. That's the sort of peace, I'm not talking about some sort of higher spiritual thing when I say peace, I'm talking about literally the environment being more peaceful.

We can send out a general invite to our relatives if one of the girls has a big performance/competition for one of their hobbies, and feel confident that the day will be peaceful. It might be hectic, noisy, chatty, but also pleasant and without any major conflict. If she was invited there would be a high possibility of upset.

I don't mean I'm completely zen at all time. I just mean that we can live life without a background noise of being called names etc.

Life is physically, literally, more peaceful without someone who only seems to know how to communicate or love through conflict and lashing out in it.

Jenty's right Notanan, you have to save yourself. Very hard to leave when you love someone, I know. If you mum can't see the damage she's doing, there's no point sticking around and keep taking the beating.

The best advice I can offer is to stay in touch birthdays and Christmas with cards. If she sends these back, then you can't do anymore.
My mum cut me off a long time ago and it was very hard but I've got a really lovely husband, a good career, lots of friends and I've rebuilt my life by creating a new tribe. It sounds like the little girl in you still just wants her mum to love her. I know how that feels. She almost certainly does love you, it's just not visible in the way you want.
In time, when you're not hurting so much, you will grow and you'll gain a better perspective. Make your life about the family you have now, those who treat you well and make you feel good. And take care of you. xxx

Notanan...I admire the steps you have taken to protect your precious children....and hopefully yourself. You truly had no other choice.

Two things sadden me however, reading yours and other's experiences. Despite the claims of peace, I don't feel it. Relief, a fait accompli, acceptance and many other things....yes. Absolute total peace...no, and that is perhaps the worst thing you have been deprived of. The constant need to revisit your pain is stopping you. It is easy to physically walk away. To forget a lifetime of abuse, almost impossible. I also pick up on snippets of guilt, which is not something you should ever feel, but conditioning in childhood, to feel a complete failure, often leaves these feelings. However your self awareness is such that I'm sure time will perhaps give you the peace you crave.

The other thing that has saddened me since this discussion started is the way that so many people have been labelled as abusers and narcissists on this thread, by complete strangers. To the extent that some have stopped posting. Everyone has a different story or experience. I still have my close relationship with my precious son, thank God, but none with my only grandchild. I would do practically anything to change that....but not at the expense of my son's happiness. Please don't judge others by your own experiences. Pain is universal.