should the children be more important than the relationship

I think we need to get it into perspective - the child is being left for a weekend with a loving grandmother.

This is what etheltbags said in the opening of her OP:

although I'm happy to babysit I do think that they should put the child first. Under 5s need their mothers

She is happy to babysit (and will love it), but wonders if the child may feel a bit insecure as she believes under-5s need their mothers. So many tots today are put into nursery from a few months old because mothers want or must go back to work.
On the other hand, I do know of some younger mums who would never leave their children unless absolutely necessary, leaving them with other people does not necessarily make them more secure, sometimes it can make them less secure.

Someone earlier said it takes a whole village to raise a child, but I think it takes all sorts to make a world.
And one of the most happy families we know (or we thought they were), with the parents having plenty of 'me' time, together and separately, is just in the process of splitting up which has upset a lot of us who know them greatly.
There is far too much me, me, me these days imo.

It would worry me that a child was brought up with a parent with warped views of relationships- hopefully they can see from friends and wider family that there are other ways.

I think that it is the children who miss out when they get a parent like Ethel and her jaundiced views of men.
I prefer the relationship described by pollyparrot and NanandGrampy, it is so, so much healthier for the children. It is certainly not cloying. DH and I have a relationship like that and it doesn't prevent you doing things on your own.
I know we have had the worrying argument before that children are so horrible that only the parent can love them! Of course you can love children that are not blood relations.
My first DH died and DS was absolutely desperate for a father and siblings when little, he was extremely lucky that we found a lovely man and of course he is loved. His life has been so much richer with a step father and siblings than stuck with a mother who makes him think she is the only one that can love him!
If that suits you then fine Ethel, but please don't think that your idea of marriage or step parenting is normal for many of us.

Jingle. I think you have your 'nice' head on today LOL. You know exactly what Ethel is like.

Jings sounds like you and your DH have a great balance , and isn't what that we all want.

Certainly over the years DH and I have had some cracking rows over the years ... Now we seem to have found a happy middle ground ! Like you really .

I dont understand reikilady. She has said about winding people up before, so some of her threads are a wind up and some are not.

I strongly endorse 'NanaandGrampy's views. And also the person who referred to reikilady's views as 'jaundiced'(can't be bothered to scroll back looking for the name. Seems to me reikilady/ethelbags has a very warped outlook on relationships.

If a child knows that the whole world revolves around them, and - by inference - that their needs AND wants are more important than anyone else's it it the child who will grow up as a "spoiled brat". Balance is all. Of course time must be given to children, and there are certainly many occasions when their needs ( as opposed to wants) must come first. But to sustain a rewarding and healthy relationship the same must be accorded to one's partner - and reciprocated, of course.

And as someone else said, - how precious for both grandparents and child to develop a relationship unencumbered by parents being there.

You and yer old fella sound Ok, jings

Very welcome anyway.

Slow day here , anything to liven it up Jings 1

Thank you Nannaandgrampy. what brought that on?

I honestly don't care hink that petra, and I think it's unfair to say that. She stated an interesting point of view. That's all.

Love to Jings

I don't think I have the same relationship with my DH as pollyp has.

We've been married close on fifty years and we have changed. He has developed his interests which I most definitely do not share. I enjoy him being out of the house following those interests. I sometimes drag him out to lunch but, TBH, I would much rather go with my DD. We have much more to talk about. We even watch television in different rooms for much of the time.

We are ok though. Quite happy really.

"I think there's a bit of troll going on here, if you don't mind me saying so"
Ethel is good at that. She's done it many times before.

Nannaandgrampy I didn't give it that much thought tbh. Shall we have an argument lengthy discussion over whether it has been a 'ding dong' or not?

our = out

jing thanks for your reply. We don't agree, but that's GN!

trisher of course I have adapted parts of me to fit in with my DH, but I don't see that as a bad thing at all. We adapt to out environment where ever we are, taking on the role we need for the situation. I'm not aware of anything I lost from my personality.

Elegran I love your posts about all this, but I especially love

There is me.
There is you.
There is us.

Thank you.

trisher yes, if you are spending a lot of your time together, then both parties have to adjust to it. There are three people in every marriage, (and that is before the children come along to add to the number of personalities in it!)

There is me.
There is you.
There is us.

It doesn't work if any one of those three become too dominant, at the expense of the other two. If the demands of one of the partners pushes the balance too far away from both the other partner and the "us" then the other partner becomes unhappy. If "us" becomes more important than either of the partners, then links to the outside world wither, and neither partner can develop their own life.

I think our childhood experiences of family life can have a great influence on our own partnerships, for good or ill. We copy the good and bad things we watch our parents do, mostly without even realising it. Some people consciously reject what they have seen causing unhappiness, but for some the lessons have been too well learnt too early.

Ethel said: Sorry polly I would find that too cloying it would do my head in, I need lots of me time , not time spend being the amusing, witty ,ego booster, companion for some man.

My marriage is anything but cloying. I don't spend a single minute trying to be the amusing, witty, etc... person you speak of.

We have a laugh together, we look after each other, we're best friends, we share companionship.

I'm a person who needs space and I get enough of that as well.

A marriage that works is about both partners. It's not about a woman attending to the needs of a man. The very thought of that is hilarious, quite honestly. I think there's a bit of a troll going on here, if you don't mind me saying so.

polly nanny&grampy you sound lovely families. Elegran your a wonderful advert for a successful happy relationship and one I have aspired to emulate. That may sound trite and cloying and a bit like the walton family. For lots of us (yes not allof us) its the route to a happy life. I'm leaving now I'm getting all soppy

I agree with Witchygran

Reikilady, why ask the question if you don't want to hear the answers? We all do things our own way and we are entitled to do what is right for us and our relationships. What is important at the end, is a contented child and a good relationship. How we achieve that is down to each individual.

Jingl do you really think there has been a ding dong?

All I see are people sharing very different views and in some cases expressing sadness ( or incredulity) for/ to/ at the OP.

I think it's been very interesting to see how people view families, children and husbands and the dynamics , don't you?