should the children be more important than the relationship

I don't think it needs to be a contest both children and a relationship need attention as long as the child is well cared for with a loving relative what on earth is wrong with parents having time to themselves. I also think children benefit from time with a grandparent/loved family member, and knowing that its ok to be away from the parents sometimes and encourages independence eventually which can only be a good thing surely.

Perhaps parents' needs should take second place sometimes and those of the children sometimes. A friend of mine left her fifteen month old with me for a weekend when she wanted to stop breast-feeding him. He was her fifth child and she'd had her fill of pregnancy and being a nursing mother. She and her husband continued be excellent parents after their weekend break and their five children seem to have grown up into happy, successful adults who love their parents.

And sometimes they leave their kids with their parents (now the grandparents) so they can have a day or two off work, 'work' there being parenting.

So long as a child is well looked after, a short break from its parents won't do it any harm.

My Gran used to say that children grow up and leave, don't be left with a husband you don't have a relationship.

So whilst I believe once you gave a child they are important, I see no harm in some couple time also. Children benefit from building relationships with others than their mum and dad. It gives them confidence and allows them to grow.

I just think that under 5s need their mothers as I said above. I never had a day/night off from my DD until she was maybe about 7, ten it was just one night. Why do parents need to have time to themselves, they know what a commitment having babies are so why dont they remember this when the children arrive.

Any one who puts a child so much above a partner is asking for trouble. They both need attention but so does the mother. No one should have second place and children should not be made to think they are the centre of the universe, that way trouble lies.

Nan and grampy I think that you can replace a partner but not a child.
After children leave home I think its a time for yourself not to spoil a self centred grumpy old man who wants a mother substitute which is what most men are.

Why have you been given a new name by GNHQ?

What a jaundiced view.

I agree with you about under fives. Parents seem to want it all these days. They shouldn't expect to leave very young children just to go off on jollies. Too young. Little ones can't understand why they have been left.

Jingle I have sent them a email but I cant get reply as my server is down, (talktalk again), I got new password and it gave me 'reiki lady'. Ethel is sooo annoyed.

Forgive me but you sound very unhappy in your relationship reikilady at least that's the impression you are giving. Investing your whole self into your child to the exclusion of everything else seems to put an awful lot of pressure onto the child.

If you can post on gransnet forums the server is not down.

Oh I'm sorry reiki I'm afraid I disagree with you on what men want or are.

I don't see that a weekend without mum and dad means you're replacing your child. I believe parents do need a break. It's exhausting being a parent and I see no reason why you can't entrust your child to grandparents who obviously cherish and adore the child.

Both sides get a breather and come back together to share new experiences. The nice thing about a break is it reminds you why you love your child and why you're a parent.

I see no reason why you can't share time as a couple AND love your child. I agree with annsixty children should not be on a pedestal .

But surely you get to choose your own username, ethel? Everyone else seems to (not done it myself so can't speak from experience) GN doesn't issue people with names.

Anne I dont have a jaundiced view, I just have spent my life mostly man free and I can stand on my own two feet, I cant stand men who want to be cosseted by their women and who feel left out when a child arrives, women just have to get on with it.

I see older couples every day going shopping together, going out and I feel it is not my scene, I like my freedom Im glad I dont have a man hanging on to me like a big toddler.

Back to the OP, I just think that children come before partners.

Do you do reiki?

Don't assume that everyone's experiences with men is the same as your own, ethel, or that every child has to be with its mother 24 hours a day 365 days a year or it has been abandoned. Don't assume, either, that everyone thinks their partner is expendable once they have impregnated them. Spiders mate like that - they eat their mate to nourish their eggs.

Better for a child to spend a little time with a loving grandma and have parents who have enjoyed a few days concentrating on each other and come back happy and "together" to be a family again, than to have two people with separate lives because one of them is always concentrating their love and attention on the child and neglecting their partner.

I do reiki.
I don't think that it is necessary for parents to have to have 'time on their own'. It did not do me any harm we always took our bairn with us.

My opinion is not just mine, I see couple every day, where the men are just whingeing little boys, shouting for attention. Older men too, I have heard a friend want to know where his wife was every minute of the day and he is almost 90. You can be too dependant upon a partner. If one dies then the one left is absolutely lost.

How do you know that by your DD and partner going away on their own, that they are not putting their child first?
Do you not consider that their relationship is very important to your DGC?

We took our children with us. Never crossed our minds that we needed a break from each other. Odd concept.

I didn't regard my husband as a big toddler, any more than he regarded me as his mummy. You extend your memories of your own relationship to cover the whole male half of humanity. You do have a jaundiced view, perhaps inevitably if your own marriage failed, but please don't use it to criticise those who have places in their hearts for both husband and child. Love expands to cover more as more are added to the family.

Reiki I have spent the last 39 years married to the same man and you can take it from me I have ALWAYS stood on my own 2 feet. I don't NEED my husband , I choose to be with him. And maybe that's the difference between us.

My husband has never hung onto me like a toddler . He is supportive and kind and we just fit. But I have never felt I didn't have my freedom. I make my own choices , always have.

Your experience sounds very different and maybe that is down to the men you have known. I think you're generalising about men.

My mum had my girls for a week every summer as they lived near the sea. Not because I wanted a break but to have a relationship with my girls who adored her. Sometimes my husband and I stayed home to decorate , sometimes we went away. My girls seem remarkably I damaged by the experience

But jingl you didn't consider your husband redundant once you had a child. You went as a family, not as a mother-and-child pair, with a husband as much valued as a spare wheel hidden in the boot.

I never left mine until the oldest was 15 because there was simply no-one to have them.. DM was an invalid and DMIL wasn't able to. I have looked after the DGC occasionally for a night or two, but it is quite a big responsibility I feel.
Children do need a lot of time and attention but so do relationships - yes, some men can feel their noses are pushed out of joint after the children arrive and can behave like spoilt toddlers, I agree.

But I think it is a balancing act, and yes, I agree also that todays' s young parents do seem to want more 'me' time than we ever did.

Under 5s don't really have that much sense of time so could get upset if mummy isn't there unless they have been eased in gradually to spending time apart.