should the children be more important than the relationship

Sorry- don't know why posted twice.

Because children who are always put first expect their mother to do as they ask! And mother does.

Oh for goodness sake! EB is obviously doing what is expected of her, and no doubt she will enjoy it. But she is just having a bit of a moan on Gransnet, and I really thought that was allowed.

Because children who are always put first expect their mothers to do as they ask! And the mother does.

Because she loves her to bits?

If you feel so strongly about your GD being left for the weekend, why did you agree to look after her in the first place Reikilady?

beautiful thoughts
You have some strange ideas Reikilady not necessarily strange, just not the same as yours milkflake.
Other people are allowed another viewpoint surely?

Young people do want more me time than our generation ever did. But it hasn't meant that more marriages have survived than did in our generation.

I don't necessarily think a night away from mummy and daddy does children the world of good. It may do the parents the world of good, but as for the child, it depends on the age and circumstances. For young children it may not be so beneficial unless they are very used to spending time with the GP. And I would certainly never leave a young child with anyone other than a close relative they are used to spending time with.

My own DGC never spent a night away from me (explained in previous post) but it has not meant that they are insecure and clingy - quite the contrary in fact. They are secure, independent, sociable and very adventurous.

All I can see is carping and bitchiness unkindness towards ethelbags
I agree jingls

I'm blowed if I can see any "beautiful thoughts" on this thread. All I can see is carping and bitchiness unkindness towards ethelbags.

They are only going away for a couple of nights! A break from each other does parents and children, the world of good. I benefited from this, having a great Mum and Dad who I knew my children were very happy with . I have done the same for my GC.

To me what is terrible is both parents working and leaving a young child in a nursery from 8 am to 6 pm!

You have some strange ideas Reikilady

Correction- I see that I wrote without someone else when of course I meant with someone else.

Modern life means that the family has become very nuclear- it is inevitable as work takes us all over the place- but I can't help thinking it was better for children when they were the centre of an extended family.

I am very much in favour of 'it takes a village to raise a child'.

My eldest was my only child for his first 8 yrs and I made a huge effort to integrate with family and friends- not to 'make him stand on his own feet' but for his emotional health.

Yes indeed. Although this started as a very sad thread some really beautiful and heartfelt thoughts have been expressed.Our. twin grandchildren aged 8 have stayed with us for at least 3 nights a week since they were born.If they ever voice a preference to go home e we let them with no questions asked. It has only happened once with one of them. They love their parents with all their hearts but are quite happy to be separated. Recently my granddaughter went to a sleepover party.Their was one very unhappy little girl there but DGD took her under her wing being very confident at being separated from loved ones.

Luckygirl and Leticia very wise words.

Very true, Luckygirl, especially your last sentence.
I never understand people who have to measure love. You get ridiculous posts on Mumsnet with 'who do you love best- your DC or your DH?' As if you can compare the two.
I can't help thinking there is a certain amount of insecurity with the mother secretly pleased that their DC will cry at bedtime without them, rather than being please that they are quite happy and secure without someone else.
The more people who love your child, and the more people they love the better- love expands and it doesn't take anything away from the parent.
Someone mentioned earlier that adult problems often occur when the mother was 'devoted'- I find the same, they can become very self centred and spoilt and treat their mother like a doormat.

I feel very sorry for men in the situation described in the OP. Marriages are precious things and don't just thrive by themselves. It is not good for children to be the sole focus of the mother's attention. Children need to learn what a strong marriage is about and that it is something that matters. And they need the security of knowing that, when they become adults, they are not the sole source of their parents' happiness, but that those parents have a life of their own.

Caring about a marriage and being a responsible parent are not mutually exclusive - they go hand in hand; it is not either/or.

Nightowl You're right, it was Harlow who did experiments with monkeys, but Bowlby based a lot of his theory on these experiments. Bowlby did disagree with the theory of multiple attachments. He argued that 0-5s needed an attachment with a "mother" and that other relationships weren't relevant.

Some of his work is important, as it lead to further research on the important of attachment. It's now widely believed that a secure attachment with caregivers, male or female, is paramount, so we have Bowlby to thank for that.

40 odd years ago we looked after a friend's 10 month old for a couple of weeks while her parents and older sister toured Switzerland. No mobile phones in those days so we couldn't contact them at all. She is now a fine adult with children of her own and appears not the least bit damaged by the experience. She knew us well and had spent a lot of time in our home so it was not a big deal. The hardest part was giving her back.

A few years later when we had moved further away and didn't see so much of them I had to have a major operation so my two year old went to stay with them. I can assure you he is now a very confident adult and doting father.

OMG! Yes. I can imagine.

Jings I know that feeling, we have bunk beds and that always involves some contortions

My children and now grandchildren (and indeed me) have always spent time with other people from the moment they came off the breast. How on earth do you expect children to be confident around other people unless they learn to be independent? I am not suggesting weeks and weeks away unneccesarily but the idea you have to be joined at the hip is ridiculous. Indeed we had a family living near us who refused to allow their daughter to be away from home overnight with anyone, not even grandparents. The inevitable happened and the mother was rushed to hospital with suspected appendicitis, the father was away on business - so the first time the poor little girl HAD to be farmed out was in an emergency with a sick mother. You can imagine the effect on her.

I am glad to say my grandchildren stay with me regularly, allowing their parents a much needed break from which they return refreshed and invigorated.

Jalima - you are quite right - it is the 'easing-in' that must start early - nothing worse than what happened to the little girl near us.

Bowlby's theories have not been totally discredited and he was not the person who did experiments with monkeys and cloth mothers; that was Harlow some years after Bowlby's work. Bowlby's theory was that children could indeed attach to multiple caregivers from about 10 months onwards, if they had formed strong attachments to a main caregiver as infants. His work was based on studying the reactions of children when separated from their mothers in day nurseries and hospital settings. Attachment theory has developed enormously following on from those days. I don't think Bowlby or any other psychologist/ psychotherapist/ whatever would disagree that under 5's can benefit from spending time with grandparents or other significant figures.

To answer the title question NO !

I might shut up now.

Jing I'm sure you're not a monster granny

It was more common to live with or close to your grandparents when I was a child , its not like that any more. That's quite sad too. No easy popping in after school.

Especially as one of 'em sleeps on a blow up bed on the floor!

Yes. I do like reading bedtime stories. Not quite as much as I did with my ownkids though. I find it harder to get comfortable on the bed these days!