should the children be more important than the relationship

Well, we lived with my granny. She was my substitute other parent. You can't get closer than that. I loved her loads.

My boys are coming to stay next week btw. I'm not a Monster Granny!

When our GSs were left with us it was because Mum and Dad wanted to, perhaps, do Xmas shopping without small children around. Or because Mum was tired and needed a break. Or to meet up with old friends from uni. Nurturing their relationship never came into it.

ah but you don't buy a dog and pat it once * Jings* , there's a lifetime of mutual nurturing going on between you and your pet

* Jings* perhaps they did.

I know one of my little joys in life is bedtime and stories with our little ones and we have been fortunate to have them all from weeks if not days old for various reasons.

I just wondered how the grandparents felt , as personally I would have been a little sad to miss them staying over.

I also wonder whether we have this very fluid relationship with our grandchildren because my girls had the same with my parents. Is it something that goes in families?

'Nurturing' the relationship should happen before the kids are born. Don't start a family if a relationship is likely to be in need of nurturing.

perhaps Eb lived close to the GPs and so they saw them during day times. (As was the case with our situation)

"I informed my late husband that once we had our child he was in second place and all my life was centred around DD" Unbelievable! You are winding us up I assume.

Because a man might like a bit of attention, as indeed we all do, does not mean he is a "spoilt brat."

Partners need to nurture their relationship in order to provide a stable background for their children; and it is good for children to learn that they cannot always come first.

Your DGD will be with someone she knows well, she will be thoroughly spoiled and will love every minute of it. In the meantime your daughter and her partner will have some precious time together. What's not to like, as they say?

May I ask a question * Reiki* if your daughter was always with you, do you feel her GPs missed out or felt that they had missed out by not having the opportunity to enjoy what you are going to enjoy with your DGD?

I often look back and wonder if my parents might have felt one way or another about things I as a grandmother are now experiencing.

Ethelbags/Reikilady's posts have all been quite reasonable. And I agree with her. Don't know why this thread has turned out to be combatative. Oh! Yes I do! #gransnet

Funny thing is, my two will now go away happily on Scout/Cub camps, school trips, sleepovers etc. without giving it a second thought. You can't rush it though. Best go at the child's own pace.

dumping the man You all assume an awful lot from reikiethel's posts

Can't help wondering if op ( consciously or subconsciously) is hoping to see her DD following in her footsteps, dumping the man and 'enjoying' a similar relationship with her only daughter, but this time including G'ma.
Wonder too if this would've worked the same way if DGD had turned out to be a DGS.
I too am happily independent and have no space in my life for a live-in man but don't have this warped attitude.

I think the children's needs should always come first, they didn't ask to be born! I just so strongly disagree about what those needs are.

Children needs lots of different experiences so that they can cope with new experiences. They need to be loved by as many family members as possibly and be comfortable being away from Mum and/or Dad.

How is a child who has been clung to by its mother going to cope when it goes to school? How is it going to cope if mum has to go into hospital? What if the parents split up and it spends time with each? Children are not possessions, they should be allowed to grow up in all respects.

I also strongly object to the hatred of men. DH and I have been married for a very long time and I just don't recognise that description. He has his faults but I am not perfect either. Ethel it sounds like you are very blinkered and your view is right regardless. I am sorry to say this and it is not intended to hurt but I do think you need to open your eyes to reality and see life in a broader way.

Sorry if I have repeated anything said before but I only skimmed the posts because the OP's views seem to me to be very extreme.

Forgot the there

You did all marry grown ups, didn't you???!!!

But I definitely agree that you shouldn't have to pussyfoot around the dad with a view to "nurturing the relationship". That's a modern concept probably dreamed up by the agony aunts. Just make sure you want the same things before you dive in.

anno Please not that old chestnut.

Ethelbags when your baby was born did you tell your DH that he was in second place from now on, or that you both were? The former was perhaps a bit mean unnecessary, () but the latter would have been ok. (although I can't see why it would have been necessary to actually verbalise it)

Give them space and let them fly.

Very well said * Indinana* , especially the last sentence.

It sounds to me as if the OP thinks the only role a husband has is to provide his wife with the children that she can then devote her life to, at his expense.
Why bother with a husband at all if it's just the children that women want? After all, men are just 'spoiled brats', 'big toddlers', 'whinging little boys' and 'self-centred grumpy old men'. So all a woman needs to do is get herself pregnant and discard the sperm donor. Simples!
Thankfully though, Ethel, the majority of women don't think as you do. Most of us saw the importance of keeping the marriage fresh, of giving time to our husbands and involving them in bringing up the children. In other words we were a family. And most of us loved to see our children building strong and loving relationships with their GP or other adult family members. It is unhealthy to smother them and keep them tied to your apron strings - how can they learn to be independent?
You talk about children needing to be with their mother all the time. I can't help wondering if the need was more yours than your children's.

Elegran. Yes, research based on animal studies, which were flawed to say the least. Very interesting though and at least the original studies led to much more research and knowledge of child development.

Ah yes, "Child care and the growth of love" - but the way he researched childhood distress at the lack of maternal care was to raise some baby monkeys without contact with a mother at all, or any other emotional attachment. All they had was a cloth-covered cylinder, which they clung to desperately in need of comfort. No wonder the little mites grew up disturbed.

Flawed research, and nothing to do with contented babies spending a little time with a well-known and loving substitute.

What a very warped view of men you have reiki. It's completely at odds with my experience of husband, father, uncles, father in law and brother/brothers in law as well as friends, none of whom have ever behaved in the way you describe.

I wonder if DD always having been put first,still sees it as her right to still be put first.
I see nothing wrong in a couple having 'us' time and quite often look after a child who is not my biological GD,to give mum a single parent some breathing space when needed.
I never left my children we always went as a family,but neither GP where willing or able to help,after 26 years my marriage collapsed due to ex having worked 24/7 and no longer having anything in common.
different situation now DGD lived with myself and new partner after the death of my daughter,new partner arrived first and we all had to shake down and make it work,DGD went to spend a week every so often with my ex and his new partner,and was happy to do so,she is confident and happy to embrace all things new.
I have read that it takes a village to raise a child.
I appreciate every one has different views and circumstances.
The difference in confidence between my GD and my son and daughter is very difference.