should the children be more important than the relationship

John Bowlby was the psychologist who originally argued that 0-5s need a mother and that separation from their mother could cause distress and later on, psychopathy.

His views became very influential and were used by the government just after the war, to get women back into the home so returning men could take their jobs.

Many subsequent studies have discredited Bowlby's theories. It is now recognised that babies are capable of attaching to multiple carers and indeed thrive from these attachments.

So OP your grandchild will love having a weekend with you. Her parents are putting her needs first in allowing her to form multiple attachments.

I agree with the one poster who said that the original poster's view was jaundiced. I can't imagine why anyone with those sort of views would consider marriage in the first place, let alone clutter up the situation with a child who becomes so much the focus of their attention that they shove their partner into the background. I don't think it's a matter of putting one party or the other first; it's a balance. I do think couples benefit from having time together if there is support available from grandparents, but only at an age when the child is emotionally capable of enduring the separation. Our grandson was three when DD and her partner asked if they could have a weekend away to recharge their emotional batteries. I agree with cornergran - sometimes you need a bit of adult space. He was fine with us for the couple of nights they were away (and has spent many nights with us since of his own volition) - any longer might have been a problem and if he had shown any sign of being distressed, they would have come back to him straightaway. Some children might not be fine and in the end, it is horses for courses.

When I was widowed and living on my own before remarrying I lived very near DD and saw her and the little ones most afternoons on my way home from school. DGS loved coming to stay overnight with me - and would often ask could he come and sleep that night - as long as it wasn't a school day for me the next day he just put his PJs in a bag and came home with me - a bed was always made for him and a toothbrush waiting - and then gradually his sister chose to do the same thing. Occasionally they would stay because their parents were going out but normally it was the children's wish. Twenty years later they are independent and we still have a wonderful and close relationship and they now invite me out for a meal (just the three of us) and take me home afterwards!

I mentioned on another thread this week on here that sadly, some of those who are estranged from their children are those who put their children first when they were younger. I presume becuase the children become the centre of the universe and carry on believing it and acting accordingly.

I think poster is wrong putting most men in a bad light,(poor bleddy men can't win)
I see nothing wrong in parents having a few days without kids.My niece and hubby did it,we had great fun with the little ones,
Different when relationship breaks down and mum finds a new partner,then the child should come first.Often they don't though,

We always put the children first. We believed that they didn't ask to be born and were our responsibility.

Widowed now and still doing it although they are adults with children - tiring.

ethel do you feel that your DSiL is behaving like a toddler and demanding attention from your DD?
Clearly that is not a good way to be and is a separate issue from whether an under-5 can enjoy a short spell away from their parents.
Clearly it depends on the child, and all sorts of details about their lives and the person they will be with, whether a visit is likely to be a good idea for them.
Both my DC, from the age of about 2.5, loved spending a night or two with their granny.

Oh yes, and I was treated as the centre of the universe by my mother with the result that my unfortunate father, when finally demobbed, didn't get a look in. I can say from sad experience that this was not good for anyone.

Because of the war I was constantly with my mother at various relatives's homes. It made me very dependent and unsure how to behave with most other adults. I don't know exactly why my lovely maternal GPs took me to London for a few days when I was 7. I enjoyed the trip and I'm sure it helped me to realise that it wasn't 'mummy and me against the world'!

Time moves on and attitudes change. Our DC didn't stay away from us until they were older. Primarily because we didn't have the spare cash to go away and if we had there was no close family who could care for them. My DM was ill, my DMIL many miles away Later our DC could and did stay with close friends and were excited to have a different experience. Time has moved on. Many parents are able to budget for a night or two away or simply choose to have adult time at home. Our DGC thrive in a different world to the one our DC knew as little ones. They understand 'sleepovers' are fun from a very young age. It doesn't mean their parents don't love them. It's our choice whether or not we agree to care for our DGC or any other child, we shouldn't judge. Our DGC have stayed with us for a night or two from a young age. Never tears at bedtime. We love it, so do they. Grandparents have so much to offer the children and they have so much to offer us. How can it be wrong to support their parents if we can? I know how much we would have appreciated and benefitted from just a little adult space. I believe our children would have benefitted too.

Ideally children need two happy parents. It is vital that parents put time and energy into looking after their relationship . That doesn't necessarily mean going away without the children but having time as a couple is surely very important. The greatest think a father can do for a child is love its Mum and vice versa.

I've never heard anyone think that way Ethel and I'm a bit shocked tbh. I can't imagine thinking of my DH in that way.

I went to stay at my DB and SiL's house when my nephew was about a year old so they could go to London for a work's Christmas party and loved having the chance to start building a relationship with him. We lived 150 miles apart, so this was how we started getting to know each other. Later his little sister came along and I looked after both of them. Usually I stayed at their house, but they came to me when the family moved house. Over the years their parents were never away for more than 2 nights, but I know they appreciated being able to do something together. The children had a great time with me and were fine even when their parents rang to speak to them.

I'm pretty sure it helped them be confident enough to be happy when sleep overs came along. I appreciated the chance to stay close to my family when we lived so far apart and realise I was lucky there were no GPs on hand to look after the children instead.

I don't know what else to say because I can't get my head around your way of thinking about this.

Our family has always been a team affair with children, parents, granparents, aunties and uncles all contributing what & when they can and receiving help, support and care when the need it. Is that not what families are for?

Well, many families are not like that these days (they were in the old days I know) but people move around the country and overseas for work our of necessity, and grannies and grandads decide to live over on the continent etc.
Anyone who has family support nearby is very lucky indeed.

ethel reikilady you know you are going to love every minute of having your DGD to stay and she will love staying with you!

Reikilady
Yes I think that you are quite wrong and it would appear that I am not the only one.

It is really important that couples keep their marriage fresh and alive for the benefit of the whole family and it is so wise to do so. It is a commitment for life and to do all that you can to keep those promises made and serving and supporting each other.
In our family DH has always been responsible for the family finances and the family discipline. My job is the smooth running of the home and the care of the children. Neither of us could do our job properly unless we sang from the same music sheet so we always made sure that we kept our mutual respect, friendship and love at the heart of our marriage and family. We always made sure that we spent time together and the lines of communication always open.

Equally there is nothing wrong with giving children time away from parents in the care of loving grandparents or other family members which has the wonderful side benefit of an increase in their self confidence and a wider experience of life.
Our children adored their DGPs and the wider family and are now very self confident professional people. The whole family is responsible for such a good job and another result of that is that we are all incredibly close.

DH and I both love each other to bits and are enjoying our retirement which I pray will be long and happy. We see our DC regularly and the DGC and I am aware how wonderful all that is and never cease to be thankful. It took concentrated effort and work by the whole family at all our relationships family wide.

I think your last post at 21.32 is one of the saddest I have read on GN.
All the business about being happy on your own puts me in mind of a quote from Shakespeare about "the lady doth protest too much".

Your DD is showing great wisdom, probably gained from her life experience.

Does your DD know your feelings ? I would not have wanted to leave my child with such a reluctant babysitter. Also I agree with other posters who have disagreed with your views on marriage and men.

'our idea' in the last para should, of course, be 'your idea'.

I think families these days can become quite insular.

Mine too !!

Well said Granny23 We have a team affair too without these odd pecking orders.

I am off to bed, but if it had all been so wonderful for OP's DD she would be copying her mother!

Of course mine were totally miserable at home!!

I think you are taking a very narrow view, Ethel. Your way may have suited you but you should think carefully before coercing your daughter into the same mould. When I had my 2nd DD she was in intensive care for 5 days and I had to stay with her in hospital instead of being home the next day as planned. Where would that have left my DD1 if she had never spent any time without me? As it was she was perfectly happy with her Dad and her GPs who made a great fuss of her. Likewise we had DGS to stay whilst his Mum was in hospital with his new born sister and again when Mum and Dad were home alone together - not having fun but laid low with the flu. I also looked after DGS for a few nights when DD was pregnant, not sleeping well and (like*Bags*'s friend) trying to stop breast feeding. The strategy worked - DGS returned home happy to take his bedtime milk from a cup!

My own parents and the In-Laws were not in a position to cover for us to have a weekend break but my sister & BIL would look after our 2 if we had to go away to a Wedding/Funeral and we did the same for them adding their 2 to our family for a few days. Later our two families sometimes went on holiday together so that the 4 cousins had great fun playing together (they are still close) and the parents could have night about going out as a couple. My 2 DDs have continued this pattern of sharing childcare occasionally often o'night as both DDs sometimes have to work away from home for a day or 2.

I think this is a particularly good set up for the DGD who is an only child as she has the benefit of growing up along with her cousins as part of a larger family unit.

These are some of the practical reasons why I think it is important for children to become accustomed to spending time away from their Mother/Parents from a young age. I must also say that I find our idea of a pecking order within a family rather peculiar. Our family has always been a team affair with children, parents, granparents, aunties and uncles all contributing what & when they can and receiving help, support and care when the need it. Is that not what families are for?

DH and I both put our children's needs first. I had a secure childhood because my parents put my needs first.
Those needs don't include being glued to your child for the first 7 yrs!
OP's DD obviously doesn't think like her mother, despite being the recipient- probably why she is doing it differently.

I think it could be because my two have always been so ridiculously happy with their mum and dad. They have such a lovely life, it's hard to drag them away. I'm happy with that.

Oh dear!

Congratulations.