Support for those estranged from family members. Moving on together,

Hi ladies! Sorry I haven't been here for a while. Just catching up, so haven't read everything, but sad to see so many of the same unhappy situations still going on.

Glad that counseling is helping though, Celeb! And congrats on ND's marriage, Yoga! She looks beautiful and they make a handsome couple!

Smileless, I see you have been giving your situation a lot of thought and I believe you've come to some very wise, though painful, conclusions. It does seem as if ES is bitter towards you and/or DH, somehow, even if for no reason that you can think of. It may be something inside himself which has nothing to do with you or MrS. Who knows?

Glad you're all moved and enjoying your new home though.

Wishing everyone the best on Xmas!

Oh yogagirl so pleased see u posting positive.??how lovely a real ? tree.
we have our old one up!
Gra has put tinsel all around too.

Yes it was v thoughtful of sons partner bless her, little things mean a lot,

Trying stay off morphine today so can have a drink ? tonight having Chinese with friends.
Dance tomorrow but of course will just be listening.
Sunday lunch out with other good friends then Dominick Kirwan Xmas show yipee!
managed do few bits of shppping still got vouchers to get for Gra daughters,
Very hard as can't walk far, Gra drops me off and I shuffled round Asda with trolley.
Found.nice few bits, savers also doing ted baker fragrances for fraction of price.

Have lovely weekend all

Oh my dear twin is fixing valve for heating didn't realise is major job!

clebrgran

That is a good idea of someone on this thread, to look at the estrangement for 20 minutes each day then put it away. If we thought about it all the time we might be very unhappy if not depressed.

I discovered several years ago the my DS father who I had not been in contact with for ages, had been cut out too. I had contacted him as a last idea to see if he had any ideas. He then was in touch with DS and DiL, he saw the DGDs for 2 years, then was cut out again. he hasn't gone into it as I think he doesn't want to hurt me with the details that hurt him, but they had money out of him as soon as they made contact 3 years ago - and it made him feel sad.

Been buying presents for the box, for my lovely DGDs.

for everyone.

Celebgran that was nice of your d.i.l. I'm waiting for my ND to arrive and then we are going out to choose my Xmas tree, I always get a real one, as they smell so nice and are a treat. I purchased that book by the way.

Luckylegs what a shame you lost your good friend & shame your Son doesn't live near, so you can see more of him.

Smileless hope your settling in OK

Off to check if I need more outside lights, as I remember throwing some out last year, Going to have a lovely Xmasy day today, lunch out and then back to put the Xmas deco up and 'do' the tree with my ND & baby

{wine] for tonight girls

Ucan strangely I did feel more light hearted after I had sent them none open as yet though, I must phone my sister to let her know to open it, my ND knows it's there, but as she always uses her phone for everything, she needs to open it on her laptop...hurry up! I want to see one saying opened Send those jim-jams U I think she will put them straight on if it's cold in her flat and than think warm thoughts of you.

Baubles this iPad!

Ohnso verynglad luckylegs that you had a good laugh, life really is too short to be sad especially for something or someone we can't have.

❤️️????for you yogagirl so sad ed birthday and Xmas and anniversary of cut off. We have to accept there will be some very painful times and little we can do to alter that.

However we can still laugh and have fun and ukecan discovered?.

Awful day with back, and just got i f rom MRI scan think nurse was waiting for us I was last one, I managed to do elderly ladies pedicure bless her!

However rest of day has been struggle.

May take up 2 weeks get results back to gp oh god do hope get some answers and help feel like my life is on hold.

On bright note yes ukecan do think counselling is helping,

My dear sons partner sent me some pretty babies for Xmas tree today to cheer me up how sweet was that's?

Yes I remember my daughter as she used to be and I accept it will hurt me til i die how cruel she has been to me and her dad but life goes on and I just want get well again and enjoy it!

Ukecan, you need to laugh again for sure, is there someone in your life that you can laugh with. For me it is my son, I don't see him much but we chat on the phone and share the same dry sense of humour, if I saw more of him it would have helped enormously. My very best friend who died two years ago and I used to laugh until our sides ached over really silly things and a that left a void.ba sow that made me happy was the Peter Kay sitcom, which was cheeky I know but did me the power of good.??

Yogagirl, if you don't send a gift you might wish you had. I always have, dare say I always will.
. Yesterday I walked around the shops and I felt my old self, I am happy because I feel that I did all I could and resulted the urge to vent my feelings at the unfairness of it all, So I don't think I could have done more. Not to say I won't have dark days and feel lonely at times because it is lonely when you live alone, but a lot better than feeling a victim or trapped as I did and I do enjoy at times being free to do what I want and it is nice to laugh again as I used too
Celebregran, the counsellor seems to be helping you, you remember your daughter as she was and not how she is now. I think you are doing the right thing concentrating on those that care for you not the one that doesn't, the past has long gone but you have today and your future.?

Yogagirl, I'm having the same dilemma. My ED didn't acknowledge the 40th Birthday card + voucher I sent her but I still wonder whether to send her a Christmas gift. She told my sister that her flat is cold and a bit damp, my first instinct is to send her some cosy fleecy Jim-Jams but I can't make up my mind. In a way I worry she sees it as an intrusion if she wants no further contact. I almost feel like a stalker!
Whether your EC open the e-calendars or not, it maybe makes you feel better that you have at least done something nice for them.
We're damned if we do and damned if we don't aren't we! :-/

Nice to hear from you both *Lucky& & Ucan

Glad you enjoyed your break-away Lucky and had lots of time to think things through. As for dancing with my ex, I never actually finished a dance with him, but managed to walk off in the middle each time, I promised my ND that I would 'turn the other cheek' with him and not make ripples. As I've already said, I knew something was going on with him, him being so nice and attentive, then to find out he had been 'cut out' too...well, it said it all!

Ucan reconciling with your Son sounds difficult, but if you can hang on there, maybe things will sort out for the best in the end. Good luck.

I have actually sent my estD & estS an e-calendar They are so lovely, each day there is a different Xmas mobile scene & activities & games, lovely Xmas music too. I sent it yesterday, you can see if it gets opened or not, sent one to my ND & sister too. None were said to be opened when I checked this morning. Driving home last night, I did question weather I had done the right thing in sending them, as I always said I would not reward my estD's cruelty to me with an Xmas or b/day card, but they were so nice ...

Aagh good c you on here again luckylegs and ukecan.

Yes you did post not long ago ukecan,

How absolutely right if we were horrid mums we wouldn't give a damn would,we.

Yes I am supposed to limit my,talk of estranged daughter to 20 mins at certain time each day. Not really kept to it but have been so ill with this pain that not really thinking too much of her, although I miss her so as she used to be when she cared.

Some positive news dr rang back and told me to chase scan and have it tomorrow at 8pm. Do hope they can help me.

Well did delist lamb casserole for husband he work today, is v hard standing with pain, but,managed and he enjoyed but as he was finishing found shard of glass,!???
I was so upset blamed casserole veg I bought,from Morrisons even rang them then we discovered it had come off side of dish??oh dear.

Dr receptionist chased up ultrasound scan of groin area too as I didn't even know had been referred for that she was a poppet.

Lucklegs good you feeling more upbeat so pleased.

Ukecan sounds like tablets really helping, that's good, yes.my therapy is cognitive behavioural? I am only allowed 4 sessions I believe.

I have had a few with different person but it wasn't helping this one seems better,

How awful that someone I gave birth to has done me so much damage, it is pretty hard to accept why anyone would want to hurt another person so deeply let alone their own mum isn't it?

Try not to dwell no. It and think of those that do care my dear son and partner snd lovely nephews wife and little ones not to mention our friends and if i didn't have my husband I would struggle he is looking after me so well at moment,

Yogagirl and everyone else yes the reality slap is well worth a read.
tough for us all this time of year let alone birthday and anniversary of it all xx

Hi all, I wrote a post on here the other day but it's not here! . I wonder if I forgot to post??? It was long and took me ages and now I can't remember all that I wrote!
Smileless how annoying about your dinner guests! Anyway glad you're settling in well in your new house.
Celebgran Sorry you're still having so many health problems. I think you are having similar counselling to what I had. Was it through the GP? Talking therapy? I found it really helpful and over a few years had 3 courses of counselling - all to do with my daughter. We've only been estranged for a year but there have been major problems for many years. My counsellor also told me to allow myself about 20 mins at the same time each day to think and worry about each problem and if there was a sensible solution I could act on it and if not then to lock the worries away in a box in my head until the next day. I actually used a real box and wrote each worry down on paper. It was a good way to put things in perspective. However when my son recently started on me and verbally abused me it was all too much. That's when the depression set in. I've been on the Sertraline now for 2 weeks and it's really helping. Although I was right that the problems don't go away, I feel much better. I am sleeping better, and the thoughts and questions have stopped spinning round in my head, (they really were taking over) I feel I am coping better with my 'loss'. Yogagirl it sounds as though you are having the same problem of not being able to control the negative thoughts. It really is self destructive and I could feel myself falling deeper and deeper and there are no answers. I am now telling myself that this isn't the end of the story and for all I know there may be a reconciliation in the years to come. I have to have some hope. Bride and groom photo is lovely by the way.

Rhinestone I have blocked my phone and private messaging from my son because of the verbal abuse. He has been letting his pent up anger out on me since he recovered from drug addiction. He is a hard worker and has had a job since then but he cannot reconcile himself with his past and is so full of self hatred and anger. I had to be hard and turn my back on him in the hope that he gets professional help instead of using me to deal with it. It is so hard I know, because no matter what we will always love our children.

Luckylegs9 glad you had a good break and were able to sort some things out in your head. It takes a lot of inner strength to move on - I wasn't able to do it without the AntiD's. I think it's that feeling of rejection after all we did for our children and how we loved them. Are you planning on moving to a completely new area?

Even though I am starting to feel a bit better with the Antidepressants I am now worrying about Christmas and whether to send ED a present. I know she's been horrible to me and didn't respond at all when I sent her a gift card for her birthday I can't bear to think of her alone at Christmas without any family and no presents.

Apart my 2 EC and EGD do you know what I really miss? Laughing. It is so long since I properly laughed, you know that uncontrollable laughter that makes you feel so good afterwards? On the other hand I don't cry easily so there is no feeling of relief. I think that's why I got so depressed.

Much love to you all on here and remember we were (are) all good Mums and did the best we could. It's easy to allow them to convince us otherwise but if we were bad Mums we wouldn't be on here pouring our hearts out. We wouldn't care what they thought of us. Stay strong. :-/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Just got back from holiday. Two weeks on my own, plenty of walks and time to think. What it has clarified for me, is that I can face the future on my own, the estrangement is best left as it is, I know I am worth more than the way I was treated, got to sort out my next move as regards living in a different place,I keep backing out. Glad you are happy in your new home Smileless, you deserve it. Celebregan, pleased your counselling is helping you but sorry you are still having health issues,however, not long now until you are with your son. Yogagirl, what a lovely bride and groom, hope they will be happy, don't know how you managed to dance with your ex, I would have felt like kneeing him where it hurt, but that would not have been very fair on the happy couple. To everyone else, hang on in there, there are so many of us moms who don't deserve what our offspring put us through.

YogagirlWhat a beautiful picture. They both look so happy and I love your daughter's dress. Most of all I'm glad you had a wonderful time.
Smileless and Celebgran I'm with you in thinking that our children are adults. They have their own minds and free will. And unless someone is holding a gun to them saying they can't see their parents, they have made the decision or gone along with their partners. ( Smiless sent a pm to you)
We went to the lawyer yesterday and took the estranged son ( stepson in my case) off our trust. We are not going to reward bad behavior.
Be careful what you ask for. I got a phone call from my son ( formerly estranged for two years) mad that I have come to see him in his new place. He came down two weeks ago and I told him I would like to see it. But I have had a full schedule with my daughter moving on Wednesday and trying to help her, my husband and his kidney stone, and all the financial going back and forth for my mother. On top of that I tried to explain to him I have been doing a lot of babysitting as my DD has been to court four times for the divorce. I won't even get started on my aches and pains. So here I am reconciled with my son and he is now mad that I haven't been to see him, an hour away, in two weeks. All this from an almost 39 year old. He must think I sit around all day like he does . He still won't work for anyone. I don't know how he lives. He dresses like he's a teen, has long unkempt hair, and raggedy clothes. I reminded him that it took him two years to see me. I told him I refused to get into an argument . I think he's jealous because his dad has been seeing his half siblings who live out of town and I have been involved with mom and my DD.
Before I leave this earth I would love for someone to do for me as I seem to take care of everyone.

Thanks for the book recommendations Celebgran I'll get it, and yes I do remind myself that my estD could have said 'no' to cutting out all her family, me being the first as I was closest, then her sister [my ND]followed by everyone else in her birth family. This time of year is the hardest, as I was cut out on the 16th Nov, then on the 23rd Nov my estD birthday, then Xmas

Yogagirl it is out of your control tell please Remember that, you were lovely mum and. And Did all you could.

Please don't got down the road of if only and try reading The Reality Slap. By Russ Harris it isn't about estrangement but how we canc cope with life changing stuff. Very good my counsellor recommended only 5.99 on amazon.

Another idea when those thoughts come say right it's very sad but I will only think about it at such and such a time and for just 20 minutes.
This is helping me.

Sadly smileless is right our estranged children are quite capable of preventing or limiting the damage that has been done ✅ and tempting as it is to give all blame to my s i law I know in my heart that txx could easily have responded to myndear husband desperate card when I wash taken hospital in ambulance last weekend.
However she ignored it as always and we have to accept our daughter does not care if we alive or dead.

Thank you one and all for your nice comments re my daughters wedding pics, it was such a fantastic wedding, happy memories and to find out my ex has been 'cut out' too!

Bad of your friends to let you down twice for your home cooked meal in your new home Smileless Very thoughtless of them and of course if someone is coming to your house for a meal it involves a lot of work all round, I think you had a right to spit out your dummy S Here's some to cheer you up.

I know what you mean Celebgran & Smileless re 'moving on' and enjoying things, but everything is tinged with sadness, especially this time of year, I have to turn the radio off when little children come on talking of Xmas etc. and don't watch any adverts on TV, same reason, too painful! My estD only had one Xmas not living with me, so this makes Xmas all the more painful! I still wake in the early hours thinking of them and thinking 'if only I had done that, if only I had done this' But bottom line is, all I ever did was love them, cherish them and help them, financially too, I never did or said anything against them, why would I, when I loved them all so Just wish this estrangement would end!

I'm glad your finding your counselling sessions helpful Celeb.

I think the hardest thing of all that we need to come to terms with is that even if we firmly believe we wouldn't have lost our children and GC if not for the partners they've chosen, it is still their ultimate responsibility and we have no choice but to accept this.

I remember about one year into our estrangement, going with Mr. S. to see a local minister he'd been confiding in. He said to me that we had no idea what our son's home life was like and how much pressure he was under to have nothing to do with us. I agreed but said I couldn't and would never be able to understand how an adult child could turn their back on their own parents and entire family.

It isn't just the abandonment that causes so much pain, it's the awful things that are said, the lies that are told to try and justify the unjustifiable that cause so much heart ache.

If our ES was unable to have a relationship with us for the sake of his marriage, he could at least have said so. God knows, that alone would have devastated us but at least it would have been honest. Then they could have done the decent thing and moved. Selling their house would have meant repaying our and my brother's investment. They'd have had to have rented as they'd have had no deposit but it would have been not only the right, but also the dignified thing to do.

So, if the sole blame for our estrangement lies at the feet of our d.i.l., why did our ES remain living just yards down the road? Why did he send such cruel and vile emails? Why did he used to walk past our house with the GC he wouldn't allow us to see? Why did he look the other way when he saw us coming? Why, when I contacted him asking if we could see the GC because he'd told his brother he'd never said we'd never be able too, did he not even bother to respond? Why, when I sent him a calm, reasonable and loving 'goodbye' did he respond once again with such anger, bitterness and resentment?

As unpalatable as it is, the only logical answer must be because this is what he wants. He didn't just decide he didn't want anything to do with us anymore, he decided to be as cruel and hurtful as he possibly could be, not just denying us contact with our GC but continuing to live so horribly close and from time to time parading them outside our home.

To begin with it was so much easier to blame her, to see him as as much an innocent victim of her wickedness as we were but eventually, I had no choice but to see the enormity of his role and responsibility in our estrangement. TBH it wasn't as difficult as I'd thought it would be; it was almost a relief in a strange way and was paramount in enabling me to move on: quite literally.

Smileless intoo would have spat my dummy out! This is what we fell out with old friends over about 3 years ago remember, I had planned meal, shopped, and they cancelled last minute as she was going to see show, obviously booked knowing dates clashed. Things were said in anger, the husband old school friend of Graham's was deeply upset and apologetic and we kept in touch, him and Gra going out this year he suggested all 4 meeting up i was little anxious but it went so well we seeing them again next Sunday ?Happy ending for once,

Sound like you well settled smileless entertaining ???so very pleased for you.

Pain has gone into back today ?Made counselling and found it very helpful.
Here's hoping.!

Just had Chinese was okay, and allowed weaker Zinfandel wine (medication) been good day as husband got on well at dr and referred fro scan.

Seeing old friends tomorrow for drinks at our club.

Sunday other fiends taking us out for lunch they driving give us a break,

Have good weekend all and yes endorse smileless comeents you have beautiful daughter yogagirl i do think she resembles you!

What a beautiful photo Yogagirl, you must be so proud they make a lovely couple don't they. She's a beautiful girl, must take after her mum.

Well, well, well so your ex has been cut out too. No doubt his behaviour toward you at the wedding was as much about his guilt as his way of making an apology. Only now that it's happened to him, can he have any idea of the pain and trauma you've been through. He must feel pretty bad having being a part of it all.

Not that you needed any proof, but if proof was needed that your estrangement in no way was due to you as a mother, than this is it.

You did well to go swimming Celeb considering how much pain you've been in. Be careful, a little gentle exercise may help but don't over do it.

Well I'm prettyright now. Our friend was supposed to come and see our new home and have a meal last Friday but his car broke down on the way and he didn't make it.

His adult son contacted us the following day and asked if they could come this evening (his mum, my dear friend is abroad at the moment; their 3rd GS was born 2 days ago and she's been there helping out with the other 2).

We got a message this morning from the son saying he couldn't come because he had to play tennis. Mr. S. asked if his dad was still coming and he said he didn't think so so Mr. S. contacted him and he's said 'no sorry; I've got to clean the house before picking J... up from the airport on Sunday'.

Well it stands to reason doesn't it that if you have people coming round for a meal, you go to a lot of effort and prepare something. Thankfully, we have our lovely new neighbours coming tomorrow so I shall serve what I'd began to prepare for tonight. Mr. S. and I will get a takeaway tonight.

We're supposed to be meeting up with them a week on Sunday for lunch before they come back here so J... can see the house. Stamped my foot, spat my dummy out and told Mr. S. I'm not sure if I can be bothered to go. Bless him said 'OK, see how you feel'. I know I'm being childish but I'm just so; Mr. S. knows we'll go, I just need to have my little tantrum.

Just seen my counsellor and I really think she is helpful.

Have to practice only talking about txx at certain time and only for 20 mins,

Aim is yogagirl and please don't take offence that we are in danger of letting what has happened spoil the good things, it is much harder for you on your own.
However we have to realise we have no control over the horrendous behaviour our daughters have shown, whatever excuse blaming partners etc, it is ultimately their choice s let them,get on with it,

We too have a life to lead people who still love us and we have to let the sadness go we really do.

Hope this makes sense.

Dear husband finally agreed go Doctor ref knee and has been referred for scan.
Also got meds.

I feel quite positive About xmas now, and we are going enjoy,despite my pain and the estrangement can't wait see our son and family on!

Celebgran didn't see your last post on here, had to dash off to answer phone to ND, she told me her dad, my ex, doesn't remember much about the evening of the wedding, he doesn't remember going to bed lol , so must have been well tanked-up! Well done on your swimming, sure that will do you the world of good.

Nice to hear the childhood stories, some parts lovely, some not quite so for all and God Bless.

Now all the excitement of the wedding has died down, feeling sad, four long years of grieving, cut out for no reason! I took another look at that pic of my estD, with the C seeming to be giving her a head massage, she looked ill or very depressed, just makes me think " why, J why??" we were sooo close before, no sign of what was to come she must have known he was gunning for me, she should have warned me, I could have collected her & the C and brought them to my house, and kept away from him, he had lost his job again, so at home all the time, stewing.....

Thank youmsparkly grandma. Ymdear son partner just told us they having main Xmas. Meal with us on 28th which is lovely We are going o 27th to save stress of travel xmas eve and over that period,

Just us and Rosie I have broken my heart again that estranged daughter not responded to short card dear husband sent her when i was taken to hospital??but when will I learn she doesn't care about us? Eventually I guess,
counselling tomorrow supposed help me move on as they say,

Thanks sparklymgrandma I do hope pain eases soon feel drugged up all time with pain relief ?

I did manage drive to swim pool and swam 12 lengths but I was very much in agony when got home slept all afternoon

Yes wish us all please at Xmas and remember how our estranged children behave treating us with total lack respect, compassion or loyalty let alone love says more about them than us,