I feel very sorry for the OP husband, he was clearly very close to his mum & dad and the m.i.l leaving Xmas presents on the doorstep shows she wants this horrid situation to stop. I know how she feels, she must be distraught! I do not doubt that her behaviour needed to change, she needed to step back, but you clearly hate her and want her gone, no matter what!
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End of tether with mil, need help.
(173 Posts)Hello – I’m new and here out of desperation. I’m on the other side of your traditional coin, as it were, and am hoping you’ll have some wisdom or strategy we haven’t considered, as I’m rapidly reaching the end of my tether with my mother in law, and all the daughter-in-law forums I’ve been to recommend we run and never speak to her again, which is a fairly drastic step I’m trying to avoid taking. I also apologise for the length – there is history, but I’ll try to be brief.
To set the scene, my husband is the only child of his parents, and his mum, my MIL, is also the only child of an only child. My MIL’s mother passed away about 6 years ago, so we and her husband are all she has by way of family, which is why we’re trying to avoid cutting her off.
My husband and I have been together for 11 years, married for 4. When I first met his mother, it was immediately apparent we’re very different people – she’s involved in the arts, is very extroverted and outgoing and open with her emotions, whereas I’m science-y, quiet, introverted and hate being the center of attention. Despite this, I was still hopeful we could have a good or at least workable relationship, as I get along brilliantly with his dad and also DH’s university friend who they’ve sort of ‘adopted’ as a pseudo-son.
Things were okish until we got engaged after we’d been together for 5 years (broke students = long engagement). At that point, her behaviour started to spiral. She’d always been a bit overbearing with how much involvement she wanted in our lives, and we did give her jobs and responsibilities with the wedding, but she went from ‘a bit over-excited’ (every conversation she had with us had to be about the wedding, she’d send us long rambling emails full of ideas we didn’t want, would attend wedding fairs without us) to ‘invasive but we could just about cope’ (she sulked and made PA comments for weeks when I said I was buying my wedding dress rather than letting her make me one, she nearly sabotaged our venue negotiations by calling them behind our backs, those long rambling emails became weird entreaties begging for us to change our dates or locations to something cheaper along with lists of things we could better spend the money on – not items that would have been helpful, but things like fresh rosepetals strewn down the aisle and things like that) to finally in the last 6 weeks, totally off the rails.
Due to a mix up with hotel rooms, we had to intervene and swap things around so a disabled guest could actually have a room with disabled access. MIL lost it.. Twelve increasingly hysterical and abusive voicemails, then radio silence for a fortnight, then when DH finally called her, she spent over 3 and a half hours screaming, crying, and wailing down the phone that if DH didn’t give her the control over the hotel rooms back, she and FIL would refuse to attend. Eventually, DH caved, but our opinions of her from that point on were permanently changed.
The wedding itself, the night before we each had family gatherings at separate restaurants. A cousin of DH’s grabbed me the following morning while I was getting ready, to report MIL had gotten drunk and spent the evening badmouthing me and DH about how we were so shameful and disgraceful and thoughtless, etc. Faced with having to confront and eject them from the wedding the day of and my DH not having his parents there, I kept my mouth shut, but having to cope with my blood boiling every time I looked at her didn’t exactly mean my wedding day was happy or relaxed.
After that, she sort of returned to normal for a little bit, and I kind of wrote it off and tried to just swallow the bad feelings – afterall, weddings make people crazy right? I was sure if she hadn’t apologised for her behaviour, it was only because she’d realised how bad it was in hindsight and was thoroughly embarrassed and didn’t want to bring it up.
Unfortunately, the last 18 months have given lie to that, and we’re now faced with how on earth to handle her. The first incident was she had a screaming temper tantrum in a car park at my DH that we should call our son her maiden name – I was not, and had never been pregnant at the time, we weren’t ready to TTC. This was followed up with an email that started out sensible but then became increasingly rambling and incoherent, and centered around the fact we’d double barrelled our surnames and this somehow made her feel left out and then spiralled into weird justifications about how he would always be her baby? DH acknowledged we’d received it, but never replied and never brought it up. He also overheard her saying to mutual acquaintances multiple times that she would have loved to have been more involved in our wedding but she ‘wasn’t allowed’. Blood boil – that was when I finally cracked and told him what she’d said about us the night before the wedding. He was horrified, but didn’t confront her.
God this is long: to the point. We’ve recently had two big things happen; we’ve just bought our first home (yay!) and are finally TTC (double yay!) She obviously knows about one but not the other, and she’s repeating the same behaviour. She got upset and very insulting to DH when we wouldn’t give her a house key to our new home to decorate it without us there, even when he spent 2 hours cajolingly explaining why. And now she’s kicked off a big argument because she has a whole load of her old furniture in storage, and feels we’re ‘insulting her’ by buying our own furniture rather than using what she keeps repeatedly offering. I want – no, I NEED to stop this behaviour NOW, before I get pregnant. Women from my family have dangerous pregnancies anyway, and the added stress she is likely to dump on me if she continues like this (or gets worse; she’s a little baby obsessed) could jeopardise the health of both myself and my child, and if it gets to that, I will cut her off rather than risk that, but I want to avoid it getting that far. So we need to force the issue NOW, rather than let it drag on to that point.
However, any drawing a line…well, the history speaks for itself really, in that it’s her way or the highway (with lots of screaming). When she isn’t acting like this, she is very loving and nice. She obviously adores her son – it’s just that she doesn’t appear to have any grasp of reasonable boundaries or expectations, and we really need to give her some.
So, MILs and grandmothers (and grandfathers, if there are any!) have you been in this situation? Did you and your adult children have to have a sit down and reset expectations? Did it go well? What would have made it go better? Are there any resources or books that I could point her at that might help her manage her expectations? Was there any logic or thoughts you had that led to an ‘Aha!’ moment that you think could be suggested to her? Is there something you think we might have missed that should be considered where we could change how we behave?
Help?
I wouldn't subject a child to that kind of behaviour, would you?
So you didn't spend the planned Xmas holidays with your husbands mum & dad Frustrated. Grumpiness equates to unhappiness. And the OP has made it clear that she isn't just removing herself from her husbands family, she is removing her husband and future children.
OP, I'm sorry that you and DH continue to have problems with MIL. But I'm glad DH "put his foot down" and also that he has restricted her ability to contact him.
I don't know, of course, but I imagine that he's somewhat relieved, which may be why he doesn't appear as sad as you thought he would be. Getting some space from MIL's drama may be best for you both - and MIL, too, even though she won't see that right now.
Glad that you had a good Xmas and hope you have a very Happy New Year!
Yoga, I see you're taking the OP's story very personally and I understand why. But please realize that the OP's MIL is not the loving, caring woman that you appear to be. Or ok, I'm sure she loves her family underneath it all, but she's clearly very controlling, demanding and irrational.
I get that you're horrified at the idea of still another GM being CO, but please note that I only said they MIGHT have to IF it ever becomes necessary to shield a future child from the drama MIL seems to create. And I praised OP for seeking other ways to deal. I sincerely hope that she & DH can resolve their issues with MIL without having to CO her.
Fairydoll, did you read all of MIL's transgressions? Just to name a few...
"...she nearly sabotaged our venue negotiations by calling them behind our backs..."
"Twelve increasingly hysterical and abusive voicemails, then radio silence for a fortnight, then when DH finally called her, she spent over 3 and a half hours screaming, crying, and wailing down the phone that if DH didn’t give her the control over the hotel rooms back, she and FIL would refuse to attend."
"She got upset and very insulting to DH when we wouldn’t give her a house key to our new home to decorate it without us there, even when he spent 2 hours cajolingly explaining why. And now she’s kicked off a big argument because she has a whole load of her old furniture in storage, and feels we’re ‘insulting her’ by buying our own furniture rather than using what she keeps repeatedly offering."
I can definitely see a woman like this trying to have a say in whether or not the OP gets medication during the birth (I didn't say anything about "what medication"). Hopefully, doctors and nurses would ignore her, but I can see her causing a lot of drama over this. If not that, then I can imagine her trying to get to hold baby before the OP or demanding to be the first one to hold baby after OP and just generally trying to make it all about her. I've heard about things like this happening, and this MIL sounds to me to be just the type who would do this.
Please don't get me wrong. I DON'T think most moms or MILs would do this - ONLY off-the-wall ones like this MIL seems to me. That's why I sincerely hope that OP and her DH agree NOT to invite MIL in to witness the birth, etc., even though I'm sure this kind of MIL will expect/demand to be there.
DO NOT GO TO THERAPY WITH THIS WOMAN!!!
She is absuive. She is your husbands abuser! You never ever ever go to therapy with your abuser. Because they can use and manipulate it to abuse you. Please don't do this.
Hello all!
So, quick (or I'll try to be...) reply. I know some people have asked about the typical dynamic between DH and his mother. Generally, I would hold him to be what most parents would consider an ideal son? He and his mum share a hobby; for the 5 months a year it's high season for that, he'll see her multiple times a week and have dinner with his parents at least once a week. Outside of that, he pops by their house around every couple of weeks and calls them a minimum of once a week. We go up for their birthdays, a weekend either on or around Xmas, and a couple more weekends on top of that anytime they ask or they have an event on. His gifts to them in the past for birthdays/Xmas have been what I'd call extravagent, especially given neither of us are in high powered careers or earn big bucks. Certainly, it's way more than I buy for any of my family - overseas holidays, backstage passes for shows, weekends away he's paid for, although we'd made it clear this was stopping once we'd purchased a home as we'd start saving for a family. (Even then, her behaviour around those gifts hasn't been brilliant - once she berated him for a 5 star hotel stay he'd paid for in London because it was on a Sunday and she claimed nothing would be open, another time she demanded he change the hotel he'd picked to a more expensive one she preferred. Despite this, she has no problem boasting about his gifts in public.)
However, he does have severe issues with self esteem and standing up for himself. He was severely bullied in secondary school, leading to multiple suicide attempts (no, before you ask, his parents never got him help). He was also trained that under all circumstances he was to Show Respect for his parents. Some of you asked why he didn't hang up when she's tantruming on he phone; he'd done it in the past, and all that had happened was she'd called back and lit into him even worse for daring to hang up on her, continuing to berate him for it for time afterwards. The notion that if someone was treating him badly, he could hang up on them and owed them no apology for doing so, same as if someone was insulting him in person he is free to disengage and walk away, and he owes no one an apology for doing so, is something genuinely mind boggling for him that he struggles with and is working through with his therapist. For the same reason he'd just shrugged and taken it when she'd told him things like what a shameful son he was, or gone off on a long diatribe on how she wished he'd been born a girl because then maybe 'they could have a decent relationship', because that's what he was trained into. He's working to break that programming. It's really hard. But he's fighting, and I'm proud of him for it.
Yogagirl: Holy insulting Batman. No, what I've said about her are not exaggerations, they are, if anything, soft balled descriptions of what she's done, because I was trying to be nice and find reasonable explanations for why she behaves as she does. Given that's what you've immediately jumped to despite the history, its quite clear that you have bias, and I can tell just from that single comment exactly what you've been cut off from your family for. I'd recommend you get off the internet and seek professional help, both in addressing your behaviour and in seeking closure for the consequences that behaviour has wrought. But I have my own hypothesis on why you will do neither.
So, I have a very vague update - DH has asked that I not turn this into some online saga on a forum somewhere, so I will do this in the loosest possible terms and this will be the last I post, but I will put something as so many people asked.
About 48 hours after my last update, more stuff we weren't aware of came to light and was the straw on the camel's back for DH.
DH's foot went down, he emailed MIL with what I thought were extremely reasonable conditions for continuing a relationship, which were basically he required an apology and therapy (he offered to pay). He also informed her he'd restricted inbound communication to letter via the postal service only due to her history of barrages of abusive voicemails/emails.
We spent a very lovely Xmas at home with friends. It was amazing.
DH, occasional sadness when the topic comes up aside (but not nearly as sad as I thought he'd be! More like occasional periods of grumpiness that are really quite short lived) seems to be in a far better mood and far less stressed in life generally.
MIL has not apologised, has sent multiple letters, some in denial, some redirecting, most of them insulting either outright or backhanded, all of them playing the martyr, a couple vaguely threatening. She's also done all she can to communicate with us in ways other than letters, including getting mutual acquaintances to call us with messages and taping messages to the inside of parcels she's left on our doorstep to get us to 'accept' them (why she didn't literally just put a stamp on the damned thing and put it in a postbox, I have no earthly idea). Attempts to return items she's sent (unasked for) have just escalated her behaviour, so now we're donating anything she sends us to charity.
FIL, for those asking, has been silent to us, but MIL claims he 'supports her actions'. So at the moment, he's collateral damage.
So at this juncture, we consider her to have cut herself off. She's claimed in one of her communications to be open to therapy 'if she must' but insists she pick the therapist. Honestly, given her behaviour, we're no longer sure if that offer is on the table, especially given the lack of apology. We might take a 6 month break from them and then reassess. We're leaving the decision until the new year, at an absolute minimum.
And with that, I shall disappear into the ether! Thank you for all your advice and the view points, they have been invaluable and very much helped me see that, no, really, it wasn't me and that there was something wrong with her behaviour, really. To anyone lurking and reading quietly and thinking this reminds you of your situation, I would recommend you nip it in the bud early and hard and you might have a chance of rescuing a workable relationship with actual functioning boundaries, rather than the mess we're in. Do not trust an entitled invasive in-law to check themselves before it gets 'too bad'. They really won't!
The fact he is her only son does not give this toxic horrible woman license to ruin Ops life.
Our children do not owe us anything. I chose to ring them into this world. I give them everything I can because that's what a good mother does. It's the very very minimum.
If someone is not treating you right and emanating you as much as MIL is dmanaging Op then you remove them. Don't spend your life obligated to them. If MiL is lonely and crying woe is me. That's not your fault. It's hers for being so wicked.
Do not be her emotional punching bag. Do not let her use your baby as Prozac.
I haven't read all the posts but I agree with those who feel this woman is either mentally ill (bi polar?), has some sort of personality disorder or is taking drugs.
I'm not quite sure how I would deal with it. Perhaps the best way, if you possibly can, is to just remove yourselves from the situation once it starts to develop (say "I'm sorry, I'm not listening to this. I'm going now/putting down the phone now").
It sounds horrendous and I hope you can find some sort of resolution. Good luck.
Oh my word the op is asking for reasonable advice the MIL has behaved dreadfully and I assume the op has a family of her own and is caring enough to be asking for advice. You do get to a point where you have to put yourself first, the ops husband can see
his mom on his own and the op can take a break. When children come along the husband can facilitate contact if the situation has not improved.
Also when people have tried to suggest in the other "support" thread that there are
2 sides to every story, it has not gone down to well. So maybe the regular posters from that thread need to remember that when offering advice on other threads
Where on earth does your FIL figure in all this? You say you have a 'brilliant relationship' with him so does he just stay in the background while your MIL is disrupting your life? Can you not discuss this with him - he must be aware of her behaviour? Failing this, when she is in one of her 'loving and nice' moods, can your DH have an honest conversation with her letting her know how distressed you both are by her behaviour.
She seems very extrovert and hard work but cutting her out would be a drastic move and may serve to propel her into more outrageous behaviour than you can imagine. This is her ONLY child - don't do this to her.
The incidents you mention, whilst annoying and upsetting, are not actually the end of the world.
Personally, I think WendySue's suggestion that when you are in labour your MIL will try to be involved in what medication you take is rather far fetched! I suggest you disregard this.
I don't think it was a good idea of your cousin's to report MIL's behaviour to you on the morning of your wedding. That served only to make you consider ejecting your husbands parents! Not helpful at all and almost calculated to spoil the day.
Coming from a Mother & Grandmother 'cut out' of the lives of my beloved D&GC, don't do it to her, this is her only Son, will be her only GC. I didn't eat,sleep or anything else for the first year, I was in deep shock and mourning! My heart is in a thousand pieces and after 4yrsplus and 5 Xmases, will never heal. I contemplated suicide multiply times a day, in the first year.
I am lucky to have another lovely daughter [also cut out] & granddaughter in my life, to love and be loved by, so of course that makes it easier, something to live for [but I still grieve each and every day]. Your m.i.l would not have this, being her only child!
With respect, I'm sure you have highly exaggerated your m.i.l's issues, you say she keeps herself fit, so therefore would not be a drunk, as has been said here. It was put that I had dementia, I have not, but my Mother died a horrible death from this, my estD helped me care for her at times, so knew the enormity of it all, so such a terrible thing to say or allow to be said about me.
Wendysue shame on you!
No doubt your m.i.l needs to learn her place, needs to take a back-step now her Son is married, but don't cut her out! and just refuse the furniture, saying you want your own.
Whew, Frustrated, how awful! MIL is lucky you've put up with her this long!
Has she ever had her mental health checked out, do you know? Could FIL get her to go for, at least, a general health checkup? Something is clearly wrong with this woman. However, if she doesn't see it or won't go for help, that's on her.
You've been given excellent advice here, especially the part about not engaging when she's acting irrational. Just let her know you'll talk to her again when she calms down and hang up or walk out. Also, IMO, neither you nor DH should ever "cave," as it gives her the idea that her off-the-wall behavior works.
Wishing you the best of luck with TTC. Please, it/when you get pregnant, have a birth plan that you work out with DH. I don't just mean about how you're going to give birth, and so forth, but about who can be there and who can visit baby when. MIL, I'm sure, will expect/demand to be present at the birth, but please don't let her as she will try to take over, deciding if you get medication, if/when photos are taken or whatever. Here in the States, some couples don't even tell anyone when the mom goes into labor/don't notify anybody till baby is here.
It's so kind of you to care about whether or not MIL has family. But once your kids start coming, THEY MUST be your and DH's FIRST PRIORITY. If MIL is going to bring a lot of chaos into their lives and if the temporary withdrawals don't work (I hope they will), you might have to take that "drastic step" and cut her out of your lives, period. But I'm glad you're looking for other alternatives first.
Hope you had a Merry Christmas!
Looking forward (I think!) to hearing how your Christmas went.
Meanwhile, I think you are wonderful and wise to choose to carry on trying to build a workable relationship with MiL. As above, you and husband have to be firm and fair. Yes, she has a personality disorder, yes she might be drinking or menopausal, but you can set boundaries and withdraw each time they're breached, a variation on the naughty step. Tell FiL your plan.
When you have children you will have the ace card. She will be (even more) desperate to maintain contact and so you can afford to be stricter with her and tell her straight. Good luck.
I support the view that you must not engage in any conversation with her if /when she is being unreasonable/tantruming. Try to agree with DH that you both leave her presence and go off, arem in arm, anywhere but in her company! She will see a united couple not being 'broken' by her manipulating.
If you felt strong enough to manage it I would find one thing that she could do for you/DH. You say she is arty so maybe you could aske her to prepare a couple of 'mood' boards for you and DH to consider for the decor of a room in your new home to help YOU & DH decide what you will do . Even if you only end up with one cushion in some fabric she found she cannot say you have cut her out! Or research some plants for the garden etc etc. It might keep her occupied whilst you get on doing what you want to do!
She does sound a) a bit wierd, b) a nighmare MiL!
Some fantastic advice already . All I will add is never leave any children you have with her , she sounds unhinged ! You have got to nip this in the bud now , frankly I would be quite worried about what she is capable of doing in one of her `episodes`. I think we would all like an update about how Christmas went .......
As others have said don't engage with her when she's having these tantrums. The more you do the more she wins. Decide on a phrase and simply repeat it calmly. Do not be drawn into any discussion or argument and never try to appease her.
It's your house and you have the right to decide on the décor and furniture. It's your taste not hers that is important in your home.
Same goes for your baby (when you have one). Name and upbringing are your responsibility. Times and ideas have changed since she was young. Just smile sweetly and listen carefully to all her advice then promptly forget it and do it your way.
I also think she's jealous. You're young, you have her son and you have your whole lives ahead of you. Perhaps she's a seething mass of regrets about the way she lived her life....her problem not yours.
This woman is toxic.
The fact she doesn't hve much smiley does not excuse her behaviour. But you and DH are the biggest problems.
For the love of God why didn't he hang up on her when she spent so long on the phone to him? Stop engaging! Let her throw her tantrum. All you've taught her is that if she becomes hysterical enough you will give her exactly what she wants. Example the wedding rooms.
You should not hve spent Christmas with her. And you should've told her that due to her ridiculous behaviour you won't be spending so much time with her.
Until she learns to behave you will be taking a step back from the relationship.
Do not ever ever leave your children with her.
Be prepared for her to ruin any post petunia time you hve unless you start standing up for yourselves.
If she calls ignore. You have got to grown a steel spine or this woman will ruin everything.
To be honest I'd have cut her off by now.
A very difficult situation for you. The best advice I ever heard when toddlers have a tantrum is ...remove the audience. I think the same should apply here. When she comes up with her 'demands' I would just say, 'Hubby and I have already discussed that and WE'VE decided we'd prefer an alternative way so we won't discuss it again'....and DON'T. Just start talking about something else. You have already given in to her before so she has been encouraged to think it can happen again. You need to be united from now on before you start child rearing. On the other hand, if she has a great idea, than say so or adapt it to how you want things and say that your decision stemmed from her great suggestion.
Look on the bright side - you say you are an aspiring author. I feel a book coming on!
This is unacceptable behaviour whatever the reason. I think Suedonim gave some very good advice. You need to get through Christmas as best you can then start closing her down. State your opinion calmly and clearly when an issue arises and don't be swayed by the behaviour.
If all else fails you need to reduce contact with her, I realise she is lonely but it seems to be of her own making.
You have been remarkably tolerant and kind up to now but you don't need to have your life upset in this way. Good luck.
In my parents day ordinary working class people as we were, would not be able to afford new furniture and handed down items were gratefully received as the alternative was a junk shop (think Steptoe and Son) . Possibly MIL does not realise that times have changed and that furniure is much cheaper these days, relative to income, for people who are in work. But there are still people out there who would be glad to have good second hand stuff, probably not at this time of year though. Perhaps after Christmas FIL or son can make arrangements with a local charity for it to be taken away, or if there is anything of value, to be auctioned.
Run for the hills now.
You refer to the furniture issue as an 'argument'. Well, don't treat it as such. If you argue about it, she will think there should be a winner - her, of course. Just change the subject or leave the room. There will come a time when she realises that there is no resolution. Also make it clear to DFiL that it's not up for agreement. After all, it's presumably his furniture too and somebody (he?) must be paying for it to be stored.
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