How Can Anyone Diagnose Another Person Mentally Unless They Are Qualified ?

And I've posted that Trump is clearly certifiable - so what?

If the stigma attached, by some, to mental health issues is to be overcome then that would seem the way forward, rather than a defensive attitude, surely

A broken leg is different to a mental illness.

With a mental illness, things for the patient and everyone involved is a lot trickier.
Should the person for example be working or not? Are they fit to work? Are they fit to drive? Operate machinery? Have a licence for a gun? Drive a taxi?

The person who is mentally ill is generally not the best person to make those decisions, and is often the person themselves who is keeping it quiet in order to go about their lives more easily.

If you were to ask people in the street whether they were currently mentally ill, their response I would have thought is to tell you to mind your own business.

Can I ask what you mean by discrimination?

You could liken someone to Narcissus without it meaning 'narcissistic personality disorder' (which is itself contentious).
Additionally, personality disorders, if they exist, are not illnesses. There is no treatment for them. No pills. It's just a style of thinking that some people have. They are just like that. They may not be likeable but its how they are.

And I've posted that Trump is clearly certifiable - so what?

You have diagnosed him as having a mental illness.
I am guessing that you are not qualified? And have never met him?

Ankers, my point wasn't about the in's and out's of mental health itself. It was about the trend in some people diagnosing those family members they don't get on with with labels that suggest they are mentally ill the point being a) they have no qualified right to do this, b) it's helping people who don't know any better, make a choice they might regret later, ie cut off a relative, c)it's a form of bullying and yet another bias of sorts. it's also being used as an easy way out and excuse to cut someone off.

In this sense, this casual name calling if you like, is just plain wrong and unhelpful.

You don't get it do you Ankers - I'm not talking about the bloody practicalities, those would be very different even for physical illnesses - cancer is different from broken bones and infections duh! - I'm talking about openness to discussion.

By discrimination I mean there is still a reluctance to accept mental health as an illness, which if I may add, isn't helped by your attitude to it.

Additionally, personality disorders, if they exist, are not illnesses. There is no treatment for them. No pills. It's just a style of thinking that some people have. They are just like that. They may not be likeable but its how they are.

According to the NHS, personality disorders are common mental health problems.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/personality-disorder/Pages/Definition.aspx

nina are you saying now that this thread isn't about 'diagnosing' mental illness in others but just about name calling?

Yes Anya, that's what my original post was about.

I have never met anyone in rl or on here who has a reluctance to accept mental health as an illness.

But it doesnt mean that ti should be attached to people that someone has never met, or who is not in a position to do so.

In fact I would go further and say it is attitudes and behaviours like that which frighten people who genuinely do have problems.
I totally agree with you nina1959.

The simple answer (yes I know that simple answers are just that and their limitations)!is that society cannot treat mental health issues and physical health issues in the same way, yet.

Thanks nina that clears that up .

At the risk of sounding like a parrot Anya, my point is that it's wrong for an adult family member, a daughter let's say, to post online that she has an issue with her mother, along with a one sided list pointing out all her mother's perceived shortcomings and faults, (while she's clearly perfection personified obviously);, and then having read the daughter's post, others instantly diagnose her mother as a 'sociopathic, malignant narcissist'. This unqualified diagnosis then being read and taken on board as gospel by half the world, they then follow up their advice by suggesting a cure.
This is usually to cease all contact and cut the perfectly sane, but 'how dare she have an opinion' mother off completely.
Problem solved!

Well, I have never read that description on here, but then I don't read all the threads.

And having 'narcisstic tendencies' is not the same as 'a malignant sociopathic narcissist'.
Nearly everyone has narcissistic traits, children naturally so but tend to grow out of these traits after teenage; it is when those traits become more extreme and impact on relationships in adults that they can become a problem.
It does not mean necessarily that someone is mentally ill.

Ankers a 'condition' isn't an illness! An illness is theoretically at least treatable.
I think the OP is complaining about name calling. In the happily distant past people may have called others 'spastics' as a term of abuse. Have we now moved on to using mental illness as an abusive term?

definiton of medical condition

Medical condition

A general term that refers to any form of illness or abnormality in the body that interferes with a person’s usual activities or feeling of wellbeing.

Jane10. I disagree. I suggest though that you take it up with the NHS or other medical people.

You still don't get it do you Ankers? That is not OP's point.

Perfectly made point Jane. GN is a lot more civilised as far as I can see. But on some of the other forums, calling relatives names to identify a cause for their behaviour, which can be anything from saying no to a full blown disagreement, is what's happening.

As mental health is such a complex and often very humanly sad issue for all concerned, I think it's very poor behaviour and indeed arrogant, to simply write off a relative because another person has pointed a finger and labelled them under the guise of impaired mental health or personality disorder. In fact I know, telling a parent that they've been cut off because they need 'mental help' is a way not only to discredit them but also to provide a very poor reason to cut them off in the first place. Plus it also inspires others to do the same and so it goes on.
I think what's needed on all forums is a ban on any kind of non qualified advice and indeed a further ban from any kind of labelling and stigmatizing.

IMO, there's a difference between saying someone might have NPD and just deciding they do. People here might say, "Sounds like you have the flu," but so far, I haven't seen anyone give a definite diagnosis, "You have the flu." (I haven't been here long, admittedly.) I haven't seen "narcissist" used widely here either, but on some other sites - oh boy! I agree with nina that it's just wrong.

But I have never heard of anyone cutting off a mother for merely having an opinion. I have heard of it happening because the mother tried to force her opinion down her adult ds/dd & dil's/sil's throats. I've also heard of it when a mum constantly butts into things that are not her business. I think lowering contact is a better choice, but some people do co for these things.

I once had a woman on my own parents group that was an estranged adult child. She often posted angry rants vilifying her mum but clearly cutting her mum off hadn't made her happy either so she came across as both angry and confused, all of which she blamed on her mum.

One day she posted another angry post this time advising another group member to also cease contact with her mum too. She wrote that from what the other poster had described, it sounded as though her mum was the stereotype narcissist. At this point I stepped in and asked the angry ED what made her think the other posters mum was a narcissist? Had she met her and did she actually know anything about her? Her reply was astounding.
She said no, she didn't know the other posters mother but she knew about narcissitic people because her own mother had been diagnosed as such a person.
So I asked who diagnosed her own mum as a narcissist. She wrote saying it was her therapist/counsellor. Had this person ever met her mum I asked?
The answer was no.

I sent her a PM politely advising that she not offer any further such observations to other posters and that if her counsellor had diagnosed her mum, with the result of her going NC with her mum, without ever meeting her, the counsellor was wrong and in breach of her profession. You cannot diagnose a person without assessing them in the flesh first.

I have recently read a book called Liota's Garden written by Francine Rivers. It's a nice but turbulent read chronicling how family life is distorted and often ruined by the interference of others.

Liota is at the end of her life, lives alone and anguishes over the daughter who fell out with her and never heard her out or forgave her. She misses her grandaughter who she's never been allowed to see or know and she just lives her days looking out at the garden she once cherished and reflecting on her life.
One day, her grandaughter tracks her down and Liota can't believe the turn of events. She hardly dare believe that the grandaughter will want to spend any time getting to know her especially as she's 18 and has plenty of other places to be, people to see, etc.

But the grandaughter falls in love with the grandmother she's never been allowed to know and stays close to her, learning her family history and piecing how it all went wrong together.
She discovers how her mother judged her grandmother wrongly and blamed her for things that had been set in motion by other family members who had made Liota a slave to their own needs. Liota had never been the mother she'd been judged as by her daughter and gradually the truth comes out about how hard Liota had to work to keep a roof over all their heads. Her own MIL had hated her and had fed this hatred into the mind of her daughter who also grew up hating Liota.
When the grandaughter confronts her mother, she loses patience with her self seeking sympathy and victim mentality. She disowns her for a while, leaves her to figure it out and moves in with her grandmother caring for her until she passes away.
By the time the daughter realises her twisted version of events has been a lie, it's too late to mend fences with her mother, she's died. So she has to live the rest of her life with regret. The grandaughter meanwhile inherits Liota's home and restores her garden so that she can stay close to the loving presence of the grandmother she never knew.

Good read but you will need tissues. x

I need them now! My eyes filled with tears just reading this, nina!

Talk about karma! Talk about history repeating itself in the most painful way! Mil turns her gd against Liota, then Liota's gd seeks her out and Liota turns her against her mother! Wow!

Poetic justice. But if this were real life, I would probably say that I hope the next generation breaks the pattern.

Oh - tears again just thinking about this - have to go dry my eyes.

Been out Nina so just got round to reading your last post.

I agree it's bad to slag family and friends off on social media (politicians and 'celebrities' I suppose must take their chances). In fact I think it's wrong to bad-mouth friends or family, full stop. There's too much 'washing dusty linen in public' these days.

If I had an issue with someone then I'd talk it over with a trusted friend or family matter or keep schtum (sp?)

Anya, I agree with you.

Starlady, the book was hard to read in places but it did have it's magic. Liota was a very characterful, quite funny person who seemed to accept her lot. Her grandaughter turning up was her reward for a difficult life.
My conclusion was that grace arrives in all sorts of ways sometimes. xx