Estrangement / Cut off Mum

bOdhiTree, as you see, you are not alone. I know it's very distressing and I've cried rivers just as I'm sure you have. Tears are good as they help to let go of the pain. For quite a long time I was shut out of my DGS's life, but slowly it has improved. Hang in there and tell to us about it. 'Talking' is a therapy in itself. I haven't had counselling, but can see it's probably a good idea.

I would say, keep a journal and when he's much older, you may be able to share it with your GS to show how you've always loved him. Send birthday cards etc. During the bleakest times I was saving things for my GS like shiny new coins in a tin; first day covers of new stamps; sometimes I treated him to a coin from the Royal Mint. When things became more 'normal' I was able to give them to him. I visit about 3 times a year as they live abroad

I'm going soon and my daughter has already said, 'No making a fuss of DGS. Only when (SIL) law is here Mum, not when it's just us.' ARRRRGH! I'm his grandma for goodness sake!

SIL doesn't like that my DGS gravitates towards me. He watches in the car mirror to see whether we're having a cuddle and a giggle in the back of the car. I keep up a commentary about the 'educational' things we see from the window.

SIL had a very unhappy childhood and has commented how lucky my daughter is that she's always been loved her whole life, and I sometimes wonder if he's jealous. I get it, but when he himself was extremely ill last year, I hugged him and stroked his head just as I would a child. He didn't complain about that.

What can we do? We must stay strong and as positive as we possibly can, stick together and support each other. Hugs to you for being brave. xx

This is just terrible and my heart goes out to you. There are organisation that can support, advise and if posible help. I don't know how to send a link but if you go into google and type in help with suspected domestic abuse you will then get a choice. From what I read you have done the right thing staying calm and not raising to his bullying behaviour but do get help and support.

I was so sad and worried to read your post. It must be dreadful for you. I was in an abusive relationship and didn't realise what was happening to me because it was so subtle at first . Your phrase that you can't see your grandchild because he says you're not a good enough person tells me without any doubt that he is a controlling abuser. I imagine he's eroded your daughters self confidence to the point where she's now being controlled totally by him. I came across a book called " Why Charming Men Make Dangerous Lovers". I read it, re read it and read it again in secret of course and it helped me to finally break free. I am a very strong person and if it can happen to me it can happen to anyone. I'd take a chance and post your daughter a copy. I really wish you well . It's terrible.

My son is controlled by the DiL, its not only women who get controlled. There is another thread where estrangement is discussed.

I most Certainly agree with CARAMAC

b0hdiTree - so sorry to hear about your plight. I have a friend denied access to her DS and GCs.

I realise that it may be of little comfort to know that this is happening to other people. As far as coping is concerned, my friend and her husband keep themselves extremely busy all the time so as not to dwell on their feelings. They are also making new wills to leave their DS's share of their estates directly to the GCs.

It is clear that your DD's 2nd husband is very insecure, a control freak and a bully. The world has to revolve around his needs (hence narcissistic) and he has a misplaced sense of entitlement. In truth, he is the one who is not good enough, not you.

I have heard that the best thing to do when faced with "adversity" is to accept it rather than resist it. But before you can accept it, you need to go through the grieving process that you have been going through. Don't be afraid to give vent to your emotions, even though they may seem overwhelming and never-ending.

Allow plenty of time to get all your anger and sadness out of your system and be prepared for it to take as long as it takes. Pamper yourself whenever you can and spend time doing all the things you enjoy (maybe you'll discover some new ones). Don't force yourself to go out or be with other people until you feel ready.

I feel for you and I hope this post helps.

b0dhi, and all......grandparental alienation is a worldwide epedemic.....see www.aga-fl.org. There may be a meeting in your area, and if not, you will find a lot of information, as well as links to really good YouTube videos. Also check out Dr. Joshua Coleman, a US specialist in parental and grandparent alienation. You are not alone. Hugs.

i had an estrangement from my daughter for several years. oh, i'd get a birthday card and present, also christmas but i didn't see them for quite some time.
after several years i found out that they were having problems and she "separated" from him but was still living in the same house. i didn't know the circumstances at the time as i didn't go and visit them [i had very bad arthritic knees and couldn't walk down their steep drive].
almost three years ago i found out about the separation and saw more of both my daughter and grandaughters however in may two years ago the girls were removed from the marital home and placed with me owing to circumstances too complicated to go into here. my daughter came too and we now all live in my little two bedroomed home.
it turns out that my son in law was keeping my daughter short of money - so short that she had to beg him for money so she could go and buy food for the girls. he would go to work every morning and take more and more money out of their joint account and spend it on himself.
she was suffering from anxiety and stress and depression two years ago and cannot even drive past their house. i'm hopeful that she will soon be able to get to a solicitor and start divorce proceedings but this is something she has to decide to do on her own.
b0dhiTree you have my sympathy and i hope that you can be strong. hopefully your daughter, like mine, will be able to leave her husband - it takes so much to decide to do this but sooner or later it will happen.
until that time hopefully you'll be able to send her and your grandson birthday and christmas cards and maybe even a small token present [maybe you could put some money into an account for your grandson] and just try to carry on as normal. it is hard but hopefully you'll get through it and your daughter and grandson will be able to communicate with you again and you'll have a good relationship.

Anything can set these bullies off. It could be that you went to the hairdressers without permission, it could be that you didn't put enough butter on his bread or that you spoke to someone he didn't approve of. Result...a smack in the face, a beating, a stony silence that goes on for days, a cut in house-keeping, a ban on speaking to family members...the list is long. It takes a brave person to cut the ties that bind.

My niece had reached breaking point and she locked herself and her daughter in the bedroom after he had got himself in to yet another drunken rage. She called the police and was escorted out of the house to safety. The divorce papers are due this month. She has made a new life away from this bully thank goodness, the only drawback is that the little daughter wishes to see her father so complete cutting of ties is not possible as yet.

It is so, so easy for someone who has not been under the control of a narcissistic man to say a girl has a mind of her own. What these men do is reduce the partner to the level of having no confidence in themselves, and to think they absolutely rely on the man for everything....it is done in such a slow, deliberate way that they do not notice until it is too late. By then they are afraid of how they would manage without the man, how useless and worthless they are themselves until they would not dare to stand up to the bullying OH in case it set off a violent argument. Can any of you say in truth that you would be brave enough to stand up to such a person? It is not just the belittling, the aggression and the pure nastiness itself that does the damage, it is the fact that the person the victim used to be has gone and left a shell behind. You have to see it to believe it.

Of course there is real abuse, however many a GP should look inward for what they have done to upset their DD or DS to the point of estrangement.

Hmm whilst it might suit some women to say their partners won't allow contact because they themselves don't want to have contact please don't assume that is always the case. Many women are definitely under the control of a man who is a perpetrator of domestic abuse. Walk a mile in the shoes of such women before you judge them. In the U.K. An average of two women die each week at the hands of their partners. Do you blame the women? I sincerely hope not .

" It is easy and convenient to blame the manipulative partners and absolve the DS/DD you were once so close to, but they are colluding with this behaviour. If you had really been that close then surely they know they can come to you with their problems if they need to."

Exactly.

"I do feel though that they are grown u women, we can't just blame whoever it is we feel manipulates then, they have choices too."

At last, reason prevails.

Well said radicalnan. It is easy and convenient to blame the manipulative partners and absolve the DS/DD you were once so close to, but they are colluding with this behaviour. If you had really been that close then surely they know they can come to you with their problems if they need to. We have a similar situation with my DHs youngest son, my DH chooses to believe he doesn't hear from him because of his controlling wife but unless my DH helped raise a doormat I don't fall for this. I believe it suits him just fine to ignore his father.

With narcissists the way you deal with them is NOT TO REACT TO THEIR THREATS OR COMMENTS. Play it cool, nothing will annoy him more. Do not cry or get upset, he will feed on that.

Sorry, that man just made me so angry, because I know how it feels and I know the damage these men do.

So sorry for you. I had a niece who married a man like that. He was a total control freak. Thank God she is about to receive her divorce papers this month.

Try and contact your daughter by 'phone and arrange to meet for a coffee somewhere. Then you can tell her how you feel and tell her how hurt you are. She is not made of ice, she knows how you supported her before this man came on the scene.

As for being unsuitable as a Grandmother, he has room to talk. Of course you are suitable. He needs to grow up. He is behaving like a spoilt brat.

Not read all posts as rushing out but if change seems to be attributable to DDs partner and he appears to be controlling please look up Clare's Law. This might be valuable. Feel free to message me for clarity. Sorry to dash

This is a repeating problem and very sad, I have a similar situation, not seen eldest daughter for a decade.

I do feel though that they are grown u women, we can't just blame whoever it is we feel manipulates then, they have choices too.

For whatever reason, the situation at some level suits her for now, I hope she makes a different choice soon. In the meantime, please look after yourself.

Such a sad state of affairs and so many Grandparents going through this please read the ongoing threads regarding this problem bTree
If your DD controlled as you say she will on day find the strength to walk away but it will have to be her choosing and may take a while,until then keep the door open for contact and keep in touch with her even if you get no immediate response back.

Wish I had some answers, it is the worst feeling ever, sending you? but above all look after yourself, try to keep busy and however hard, don't think it's you, there are so many in your position now, please come on here for support.x

what you NEED to do

Have you any ideas as to what your portion of the difficult situation may be and what you do to remedy what you can?

Bodhi, it's so sad to hear about what has happened to your ed. I bet you're right though, and one of the reasons she stays is her son. You're wise to see that you just "have to wait" then. I truly hope she comes to you one day and that you're there for her (and gs) with open arms.

Smileless, your post brought tears to my eyes. But this is not the first time. Imo, you could be a writer.